“We assume that in fact no one would dare to run for and claim the Presidency if he/she didn’t meet the qualifications of the Constitution.“
An Exclusive Update for the TD Blog
By Dr. Kate, Guest Author
(Author’s Note: This article was originally published as “Four Questions” on NoQuarter and TD kindly asked me to update this work with my previous article originally published here, The Trojan Candidate. I realized that in writing this article that without the tireless work of TD, Judah Benjamin, and others here, none of us would even know about, or be writing about, concerned with, nor litigating on the eligibility issues involved with Obama. In defense of our Constitution, nothing more, nothing less. Thank you, thank you, thank you, true patriots!)
It has taken the better part of a year, and specifically the last six months of this election season, for committed citizen journalists at TexasDarlin and many other blogs to conduct the solid, investigative research that the media, the democratic national committee, agencies of the federal government, Barack Obama himself, and Congress should have done on the eligibility and qualifications of Barack Obama. The first serious look at Barack Obama ’s Constitutional eligibility began on this blog, with the exposure of the birth certificate mystery, Obama-Soetoro’s Indonesian citizenship, and analysis of the constitutional problems with Obama’s multiple citizenship status irrespective of birthplace.
Although our collective knowledge of Barack Obama and the concerns of his candidacy came too late to change the outcome of the Democratic nomination and the election—especially in light of the MSM bias, the Obama campaign’s tactics, and DNC shenanigans– for all our hard work, we were successful in shedding some light on the content of his character: his associations, his deeds, his family relations, his friends, his lack of experience, stewardship, his patriotism, his potential agenda (http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/the-trojan-candidate/ ) and the startling depth of his secrecy.
Now that we have “un-muddied” the water…..we stand on the edge of a caldera* with no idea of the complexity, depth, explosiveness, or unpredictability of this phenomenon we have witnessed in the rise of Barack Obama ! We as a country have never actually been here before, standing at the edge of possible dissolution of our country, except perhaps in the election of 1860. One realizes at once the perils of both diving into that hot pool of water, or running away to avoid the explosion….either scenario leads to serious burns!
(Photo by Predictor, EENR. Caldera, Yellowstone National Park )
While there seems to be little evidence that we will ever fully know Obama, nor avoid the explosive change he will bring, there is a way we can learn from this experience such that our Country will never again be faced with someone who is truly unknown, inexperienced, untested, and feels (to me anyway) uncommitted to America. We can use the 2008 experiences to also highlight and then design strategies to ensure that every political party is responsive to its constituents, and that our Constitution is really a living document.
The Constitution is by and for “we the people”; therefore “we the people” must make it work and not rely on any political party to sell America to the highest bidder.
Four Questions
I bring forward four questions that get to the heart of our rights, as American citizens, to ensure that our government and its leaders are indeed qualified to lead our great country. By extension, these questions can be used as windows to other potential areas where we the people do not yet have redress.
These questions are miraculously (given procedural errors and the existing lower court dismissal) before the Supreme Court with the requirement that President-elect Obama respond by December 1, 2008. It is also disturbing that these questions are before the U.S. Supreme Court when the candidate himself or the DNC could easily have dispelled any speculation by providing simple documentation.
While I have not kept track of the Berg v. Obama case for many reasons, it truly is miraculous that Justice Souter required Obama to respond to Berg’s writ of certiorari. Even if, as some have said, Souter ’s action is not significant and procedural only, how Obama responds will reveal much about his view of the Constitution, and will determine if the full Supreme Court decides to hear the case. In responding, Obama will be essentially arguing why the writ of certiorari should not be granted.
In my opinion, the questions raised by Berg in the lower Court should not have been thrown out entirely based on standing alone, or by the notion that the injury to a voter is “vague”. But some Judges do actually realize the question may be beyond their jurisdiction and ‘ask for help’ by clearly making appealable and reversible errors that a higher court can rule on. The Supreme Court Rules permit the grant of a writ of certiorari only under specific circumstances.
The questions presented for review are:
- Whether a citizen of the United States has standing to challenge the Constitutional qualifications of a Presidential nominee under the “natural born citizen clause” [Article II of the U.S. Constitution] when deprivation of the right to such a challenge would result in the infringement of a citizen’s Constitutional right to vote?
- Isn’t it true that no one has the responsibility to ensure a United States Presidential candidate is eligible to serve as President of the United States?
- Are there proper steps for a voter to ensure a Presidential Candidate is qualified and eligible to serve as President of the United States?
- Isn’t it true that there are not any checks and balances to ensure the qualifications and eligibility of a Presidential Candidate to serve as President of the United States?
The “questions presented for review” in the writ require Obama’ response. Notice that answering these questions does not require Obama to produce a birth certificate, but instead to answer why he does not have to prove himself eligible.
Although we cannot predict Obama’s answers, based on his past legal motions submitted in the lower court case, Obama may indeed respond that the writ should not be granted because (1) a citizen does not have standing, (2) that no one has responsibility to ensure eligibility, (3) that there are no proper steps for a citizen to ensure qualifications, and (4) that there are no checks and balances that exist today to ensure a candidate is qualified. Notice he is in a position of arguing technicalities here, and completely misses his own obligation to prove himself.
Although doubtful, it is also possible Obama would try to argue that the 14th Amendment says that “naturalized citizens” and “dual citizens” are “American citizens”, thereby satisfying the requirements of Article II. I really can’t imagine he would bring this up, unless asked in a hearing, as the question of the 14th Amendment’s modification of Article II is a constitutional matter that only the Supreme Court can decide. Recall that on Obama’s own website he claims that he is a U.S. Citizen under the 14th amendment.
I think these questions may have Obama boxed in. If he intends not to release his COLB, citizenship records, passport files, etc, Obama would then practically argue a big “FU” to the U.S. Supreme Court and say in effect “I don’t have to respond to this because there is no law, no avenue for citizens, and no checks and balances that require me to do so.” He will argue technicalities in how to disregard the Constitution, including, as above, that the 14th Amendment applies to Article II. I wonder how the Supreme Court might respond?
If Obama responds in any other way, he could be forced to disclose and/or identify when, how, and what steps citizens can take, or what steps are taken, to assure the POTUS’ eligibility. Using the process he acknowledges—for example, the “DNC vetting process”–he may then be forced to prove his eligibility to serve as POTUS under Article II by showing the documentation he provided to the DNC, if he provided anything to the DNC. Alternatively he could concede that there are no procedures to ensure eligibility of a person for POTUS, and that “America has to take his word for it”. Would the Supreme Court then order him to produce his documentation according to the original suit filed by Berg?
One item of interest is how Obama responds to Question 4, on the existence of checks and balances to assure the POTUS’ eligibility. “Checks and balances” can mean procedures, legislative processes, acts, bills, agencies, or resolutions. Here is where Obama could argue that the Senate Resolution promoted by Senators Leahy, Obama, and McCatskill on John McCain’s eligibility applies. In other words, Obama could argue that the checks and balances already exist and this resolution suffices (notice this is not a bill). The Senate resolution was developed in April, 2008 to “validate” John McCain ’s natural born citizen status when it was unnecessary, and in some ways the resolution’s language can be seen as an attempt by the three Senators to create a blanket provision for a naturalized citizen to be eligible to serve as POTUS. Looking at the text of the resolution and supporting statements, Senator Leahy has the following curious exchange with Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff (emphasis mine):
Chairman Leahy. Let me just ask this: I believe–and we have had some question in this Committee to have a special law passed declaring that Senator McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal, that he meets the constitutional requirement to be President….You are a former Federal judge. You are the head of the agency that executes Federal immigration law. Do you have any doubt in your mind–I mean, I have none in mine. Do you have any doubt in your mind that he is constitutionally eligible to become President?
Secretary Chertoff. My assumption and my understanding is that if you are born of American parents, you are naturally a natural-born American citizen.
As Berg’s case has evolved, he refined the scope of defendants who now must also respond to the writ, including the DNC, the Senate Committee on Rules and Administration and its Chair, Senator Dianne Feinstein , the Federal Election Commission (FEC), and several Pennsylvania government officials.
With the exception of the DNC, who also joined in Obama’s initial motion to dismiss the lower case on lack of standing, I think the other defendants’ responses might be decidedly different. The FEC could claim that it actually has no jurisdiction in the matter by way of its charter and organizing documents, and that even if it did, it is far too understaffed to perform investigatory functions, as cited by Senator Feinstein in testimony before the Senate Committee on Rules and Administration on May 28, 2008 (link to http://rules.senate..gov/hearings/2008/052108feinsteinopen.pdf). And will Senator Feinstein blame the Bush administration, or will she admit that she too just assumed the DNC vetted Obama and that he was eligible?
After reviewing Obama’s legal argument against granting the writ of certiorari and the other defendants’ responses, Justice Souter will then review Berg’s response before deciding where the case goes next, including whether the full Supreme Court will hear the case. Remember that Souter’s clerks have all the lower court material and reviewed it before Souter required Obama to respond to the writ of certiorari. In my opinion, Justice Souter would not have granted this appeal from Berg if he thought the issues were irrelevant and not worthy of the Court’s attention.
How does the Supreme Court react? Will it order the production of Obama’s documents? Will it order the lower Courts to resolve the matter expeditiously, requiring the release of documents? Will it order the FEC, Electoral College, or Congress to verify his eligibility, or develop verification procedures? Will they agree with Obama, if he mentions it, that the 14th Amendment really did modify Article II criteria? Will they dismiss the case?
Although the Supreme Court will not want to be seen as determining the outcome of another election—even for the perception of “fairness”– the questions presented in the writ are completely different than presented in Bush v. Gore. Under Article III of the Constitution, the Supreme Court clearly has the jurisdiction to decide the matter. Legal scholars will point to Marbury v. Madison ( link to http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=19) as precedent if the full Supreme Court accepts the writ, orders the lower Court in error, directs it to secure Obama’s documentation, and chastises the DNC, FEC, the PA state agencies, the Senate, and Senator Obama for not doing their job, and not forcing the production of documents itself, while still retaining jurisdiction.
If this is the outcome, a motion could be made by Berg to stay the vote of the Electoral College pending the outcome of the case. If the Justices are concerned about the matter and integrity of the 2008 election, that motion could be granted. The expedited discovery of documents would proceed. Yes, I understand this is a long-shot and speculation on my part.
And how, in the meantime, are we to ever know about Barack Obama? Is the burden of proof really on America (Berg), or on Barack Obama ? Is it up to your employer to find out who you are, or is it up to you as an employee to provide your documentation? Isn’t Obama supposed to be working for America? I believe that the burden of proof on eligibility rests solely and unconditionally on Barack Obama’s shoulders. I am not alone in this belief (link http://americamustknow.com/Documents/OBAMA%20LAWSUIT,%20Class%20Action.doc).
Alinsky Returns?
As I sit in disbelief and alarm even writing this article—that something as basic as citizenship status of the potential POTUS is in front of the Supreme Court at this late date—I am reminded of a framework set forth in an earlier article, The Trojan Candidate (link to http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/09/21/the-trojan-candidate/), and the use of Alinsky-style community organizing techniques to advance an agenda of revolutionary change. In this article I posited that Barack Obama has a hidden agenda and part of implementing his agenda involves the use of techniques developed by Saul Alinsky and discussed in such books as Rules for Radicals (http://www.semcosh.org/AlinskyTactics.htm).
From the Trojan Candidate:
Alinsky laid out a set of basic principles to guide the actions and decisions of radical organizers [community organizers] and the People’s Organizations they established. The organizer, he said, ‘must first rub raw the resentments of the people; fan the latent hostilities to the point of overt expression. He must search out controversy and issues, rather than avoid them, for unless there is controversy people are not concerned enough to act.’ The organizer’s function, he added, was ‘to agitate to the point of conflict ’and ‘to maneuver and bait the establishment so that it will publicly attack him as a “dangerous enemy.” ‘The word ‘enemy,’ said Alinsky, ‘is sufficient to put the organizer on the side of the people’; i.e., to convince members of the community that he is so eager to advocate on their behalf, that he has willingly opened himself up to condemnation and derision.
What could be the reason for withholding his citizenship papers and birth status, especially if he has nothing to hide? Does he plan to use this in some way to “rub raw the resentments of the people” [and] “fan the latent hostilities to the point of over expression”? The concerns about Obama’s Constitutional eligibility will be met with accusations of “racism”; that the “system” wouldn’t do this to a white man, and that the republicans or others are trying to ‘take Obama out’ on a “technicality”. And worse.
If Obama is ineligible, he could rightly be called a ‘dangerous enemy’ and forced to stand down. It is at this point that “the word ‘enemy’ is sufficient to put the organizer on the side of the people…” and the maneuvering and baiting of the establishment forces it to back down, with Obama prevailing whether having shown his documentation or not. As you contemplate this, think of all the money, the inevitability narrative, the shutting down of dissent, the timing of events, the threat of violence and insurrection, the establishment of the office of the president elect, and the simply overwhelming of America with all things Obama. This certainly pulls the light from shining on the real Barack Obama ’s Trojan candidacy.
If Obama is proven ineligible, does not stand down or even if he does stand down, it is not unreasonable to expect some “in-your-face” hostile reactions and calls for immediate changes that permit Obama to stay. How ironic: in defense of liberty and the Constitution, we will be called ‘racists’.
Implications for the Future
The four questions presented to the U.S. Supreme Court in 2008 will have a lasting and enduring effect on the course of the American Constitution in the next decade or more and will continue to feed the growing doubts about Obama’s qualifications and intentions in the next four years.. Currently there are 17 different legal actions in various state and federal courts, which now challenge the validity of the electoral process across the country, regardless of outcome (see http://www.soundinvestments.us/files/final_writ_keyes_v_bowen.pdf) .
Just my suspicion, but I am beginning to get a more complete picture of why Obama has sealed all of his records, including college financial aid applications, papers, and coursework. I believe his financial aid applications reveal his foreign status; and I now see that his Columbia and Harvard papers could reveal his examination of the “weaknesses” of the U.S. Constitution and ways to “remedy” them using “administrative procedures” as discussed in this 2001 radio interview. (link to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VctiYQplw8)
As I look at the scope of research on the issue of eligibility during this election season, I note that nearly all have concluded that there are no checks and balances to assure the eligibility of a Presidential Candidate, that no one is responsible, that the DNC did not do its job, and that indeed citizens and voters have very little recourse to ask these questions. The Supreme Court has never been presented with this question before on Article II eligibility. I personally doubt that they will duck their responsibilities to protect the Constitution.
Up until this time, it has been assumed that every candidate and POTUS has met Article II qualifications. We assume that in fact no one would dare to run for and claim the Presidency if he/she didn’t meet the qualifications of the Constitution. Looks like our age of innocence is over.
It appears that we will have to craft legislation to assure eligibility criteria are met for the POTUS, and to assign appropriate responsibilities to assure so.. If the country wants to amend the Constitution to allow naturalized or dual citizens to serve as POTUS, then we have that mechanism, which ¾ of the states have to ratify. None of this can happen before the January 20th inauguration.
The four questions to the Supreme Court also remind me of other areas in which we voters do not have redress when something goes wrong. Although I am now an “unaffiliated” voter, having left the democratic party after November 4th, it also appears that democrats do not have an avenue of redress when the DNC and RBC violate party rules as they did in this case to deny Hillary Clinton the nomination. In addition, we now know that caucuses can be gamed, and do not serve the interests of democracy nor do they provide a fair representation of the strength of our party’s candidates. Because of the DNC, RBC and Obama’s gaming of the system with caucus fraud, and the blatant use of race and misogyny to silence critics, we are witnessing the democrats begin the disintegration of the “democratic brand”. I am sure there are issues in the Republican party after GWB destroyed the “republican brand”. We all need a detox from our respective koolaid brands in order to really see clearly.
What is next for our country? Well, if we don’t want to dive into that hot pool, and we’re not going to run away, then we’d better start creating an alternative vision. A line in one of my favorite movies, The Shawshank Redemption, sums it up for me:
“…get busy livin’, or get busy dyin’…”
*Photo Credits: (1)”Predictor”, EENR, Yellowstone National Park 2003. (2) British Columbia photo stock
I feel like we are the good guys on something analogous to the Death Star, and our ship has been analyzed by something evil which is trying to throw a torpedo down the fatally vulnerable airshaft. It’s almost like he studied constitutional law to find the loopholes, aided by Axelrod and Brazile and Rove, who had analyzed the weakness of the nominating system.
Dr. Kate you astound me. That article lays out everything I would like to say, but don’t have the smarts!
I’m afraid that George W. Bush has gutted the US Constitution in advance of Obamanation. Next will be Free Speech via race politics, ostensibly to shut-up Whites who are deemed politically incorrect and “homophobic,” but really to keep another group from exposure. This will be followed by a concerted effort at Gun Control to keep us from fighting back, once we realize the real deal.
Think that’s so crazy? That’s why they’ve succeeded up till now. White America is frozen in the glare of headlights.
I do not baelieve Obama is a United States natural born citizen. Some reasoning comes from his book and from his grandmother in Kenya. His grandmother said she was present at his birth in Kenya and it is also known that his mother took him from Kenya to Hawaii when he was two years old. How can it be reconciled that he was not in Hawaii until he was two years old and being born there? Why would his Kenyan grandmother say she was at his birth in Kenya if she was not at his birth? Why is his Hawaiian birth certificate not complete and his race is listed differently than it would have been in 1961 had he been born there? Why would he have a problem with presenting documents that have been asked for if it could prove he was an American born citizen? Is it because he knows that it would prove he is not eligible to be president of this country, because it would show that he was born in Kenya? The fact is that he is hiding something from the people of this country and no matter what it is, it should make people very leery of his being in the highest office in control of this country!!!!! I do not and will not trust him with anything and will always be alert to what he does and says until he proves himself. I will not accept him as my president until he shows that he has not been elected to the office under false pretenses of eligibility for the office. I am not alone with these feelings about him. Most Americans I talk with do not trust him. I do not trust the Democratic party leaders in control now as far as that is concerned. They have been too nasty to George Bush ever since he took office and have done a lot of harm to this country over sour grapes and not done anything for this country except tear it down just trying to vent their anger over the election of G. Bush. In my 72 years I have seen more damage done to the general public citizen by the democrats than I have from any other party. I am tired of having to live my life according to the Democratic powers that be. They need to let the states and local governments decide what the citizens do and take care of the national business and stay out of the personnel lives of the citizens. In other words they have taken away our rights and made this a government controlled country, therefore we are not a free society any more. They need to let the constitution rule and stop trying to change the constitution to make it coincide with the way they want to rule and laws they want to force upon the country. Keep up the work you are doing in trying to bring out the truth on Obama and the truth about what the Democratic party knows and are hiding or don’t want us all to know for whatever reason they may have other than wanting to be in charge.
Thank you so much for providing another well-researched and thought provoking article.
This is our Constitution and NO ONE should be above it. The very foundation for which this country was built upon is being tested. Please pray we rise to the ocassion.
In responding, Obama will be essentially arguing why the writ of certiorari should not be granted.
*****************************
It is not necessary for Obama to respond. He can say nothing and ignore the mess and stand on the lower court ruling. This is what I expect him to do. What the court has done is not make him respond but allow him to respond if he so chooses. More time is wasting in giving him time to respond when I do not believe he will respond at all. He will simply take the position that Berg does not have standing and expect the court to rule thus.
What I say is an important distinction. Obama does not have to respond at all. He is given an opportunity to respond if he so chooses.
If on Dec 1 the court decides to hear the case THEN OBAMA WILL HAVE TO RESPOND. But if the court throws it out then the case ends there. Remember he did not respond at the lower level and they rejected the case. In a way the supreme court is not looking to try the case. It is only looking at STANDING to decide if the courts will proceed with a case. Time is really running out. Obama keeps stalling.
It doesn’t matter if Obama has a legit birth cert. now or not. This newest case is “BRILLIANT”
Obama could have been born in the White House with a BC to prove it and he still would NOT be eligible
Read it and enjoy … http://www.blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen
This case is on the Supreme Court docket right now, and guess who’s seeing the case ? Yep none other that Justice C.Thomas
This is the only case out there that don’t need a response from Obama or his attorneys.There’s nothing they can do to fight this case… It’s over folks !!!
CASE CLOSED as soon as THOMAS sees it
)))))))))
Maybe it’s time for liberty loving peoples to peaceably separate to a few states ( separate not succeed, yet), reestablish Constitutional principals and get busy livin. Maybe the rest of the nation will follow.
I wish you all luck in getting anything done about this failure to vet and present the truth to the general voting public. I, for one do not believe Obama is qualified by birth to be president of this country. He is too secretive and this refusing to release his papers is an admission that he and the democratic party know that he is not eligible.
Obama seems to enjoy playing a high stakes game. He will do everything to maintain his power even if found not eligible to be president.
I stongly believe the entire McCain resolution was a setup for Obama. A preparation for his taking over power. I strongly believe the powers in the Democratic Party have known for years that Obama is not qualified to be President. This fraud is perpetrated by money interests. The Supreme Court is the ONLY ONE who can stop Obama.
Exceptional post, Kate. There is no point in magical thinking: Obama’s puppet maters have so corupted the MSM, political parties and process, and our goverment at every level, that these law suits will be summarily dismissed. As you say, we mst get busy living, not dreaming or wishing.
The only point on which I do not share your optimism is the following:
“We can use the 2008 experiences… to ensure that…our Constitution is really a living document.”
It is my belief that Obama plans to declare martial law and declare the US Constitution null and void. That is what dictators do.
Bemused.
Yes I have thought ever since this began that Obama became a Constitutional Lawyer for exactly this purpose.
He decided long ago to be POTUS and knew he did not qualify under the constitution and set out to either change the constitution if possible or argue against it.
He has been preparing for the possible eveniblity for years.
Dr. Kate wonderful article , and you explained it so well in terms easily understood by me.
Thank you!
TD- Hope you are doing better and not over doing it.
Take care of yourself first.
RC–as always, thank you so much!
Queenofhearts. Very interesting, but the docket says Obama and defendants have to respond by Dec 1, and then Berg responds. A “non response” is a response and demonstrates arrogance, I think, which I don’t believe will work with the Supreme Court. Also, the Supreme Court Justice Roberts will want to know if who he swears is eligible, otherwise he will have to resign as he violated the law.
Mary. I agree we are up against something very big here. All the dems who knew this are going down with Barky, the judiciary is the only chance we have to stop this. I am hopeful the electors will not be able to come to a resolution, that Biden will be sworn in as Acting President until HRC assumes the mantle in February or March, 2009. Just my view! (but I’m keeping going just in case!)
The patriots before the American Revolutio stated it best against the tyranny of King George I: Give me liberty or give me death.
We the people, through these blogs and through grassroot efforts have to fight this foreign usurper from getting sworn in as President of the U.S. on 1/20/09. Just like blacks used he courts to give civil rights, we have to use the Supreme Court through these lawsuits to protect the coup de tat which is occurring by Obama, the DNC and others.
The founding fathers voted UNANIMOUSLY that a foreign born person CAN’T be President of the U.S.
Keep fighting.
Audio of Sarah Obama saying he was born in Kenya
On the checks and balances issue, they need to do something about it. It is a matter of Homeland Security. Why didn’t they do something about this even back when they came out with the patriot act?
Could it be that Obama is actually trying to start a rebellion in order to take complete control? This idea that we the people have no right to know a few basic questions about our newly elected President is absurd, to say the least.
Dr. Kate, thank you for a very thorough report.
Should the Supreme Court be prepared to rule in opposition to Obama and the DNC in regard to his eligibility for POTUS I do not project civil disturbances.
I suspect that the Obama handlers are already prepared to present a rationale why he cannot fulfill the duties of POTUS, and will do so before any public pronouncements are made by the courts. Good theatre demands tragedy, and Obama’s tragedy is almost foretold.
O Holy Night! I have not been allowing myself to think about this because I have feared that like all the other (related, I believe) negative issues raised in the past year, this too would slide right off him. Maybe not. There is also a NJ lawsuit involving the secretary of state of NJ whose constitutional duty was to vet both candidates.
Most deeply disturbing, however, is the resonating silence in mainstream media on ANY of this. We are in a serious situation – a constitutional crisis, and not a word. A chat room buddy of mine keeps saying that this is worse than 9/11. Right. Like the neutron bomb. Not a building will be shaken.
This just in from Debbie Schussel – Obama’s Selective Service registration documents are forgeries!
Go to her blog and read the information. It is thoroughly disgusting. Evidently all the SSS registration cards are processed in Chicago…
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/11/exclusive_did_n.html
ok, where did API website go…have we been HAD?
are they for real or not? were they TOO REAL? did they get whit down by obama-people because they knew too much? or were we all duped?
i am very confused and upset…ok, where did API website go…have we been HAD?
are they for real or not? were they TOO REAL? did they get shut down by obama-people because they knew “too much?” or were we all duped…what about the supposed michelle obama tapes and her admitting obama was adopted…thereby making him ineligible…
to be POTUS
where is that website?
i am getting concerned. several months ago i read on wikipedia about odinga…not a favorable portrait of a man i might add…now, the story is scrubbed and odinga is a much cleaner version of himself…someone trying to portray him in a better light………mmmmmmmm—what is going on here…
someone making sure if obamas association with odinga becomes more known…now this guy odinga should not be the person he is…
my friend who is from russia…says this is all starting to sound and feel WAY too familiar to the country she left…what is going on here?
Grail Guardian : On another post I noted info on the Indonesian President Suharto. Article says more often then not in Indonesia, it was spelled Soeharto.The fact is that family was like a monarchy, and he was the biggest kleptocrat. I also noted the same pronounciation as Lolo Soerto. Lolo worked as a liason to this families’ oil interests and other countries. The names sound the same to me, so I got curious. Could Lolo be part of this Presidential family in Jakarta, Indonesia ? Isnt that where they lived also ? Look at the atmosphere of the photos of them in Indo.Very formal settings. Also,he died with a fortune up to 35 billion. He had 6 children, and over 100 family businesses the grown children still run. Several live in LA, one, 2 doors down from Rod Stewart. He took over Indo in 1965 I think. He then had a post coup massacre of 1/2 million Indonesians. He had little money then. He then spent many years cleaning out Indonesia, and setting up monopolies and questionable businesses there for his children. It is said at leat 73 billion passed through his hands from 1966-1999. This family still owns most luxury resorts in Bali. Isn’t that where Obama went for 3 months to write a book ? Lolo Soerto was a key liason between Mobil Stanvac and this family. I find it too coincidental. Grail guardian, you must be speaking of a different person then this. There was also alot of genocide in this country ( see Papua) story here on Td on an earlier thread. This guy even taxed workers and military for his foundations, which were rip off slush funds. The dynasty got taken down, but his children still own alot of Indonesia. There was alot of Western trade also. The new Indonesian government siezed 134 million from this family August 29.2008. They have been tracing stolen Indonesian money and this family many years, but most long ago hidden all over the world. See past stories online at : Time-Suharto Inc. as well as CNN- Indonesian Elections. There is tons more on this family. I think Lolo was probably a close relative, and the name has been spelled differently. I think this Presidential relationship has been covered up. If this is another “coincidence ” I will be really surprised. Alot of bad things happened in Indonesia while Suharto was the President. Judah and TD, will you see if you think there is some connection here that has been overlooked please ?
Dr. Kate,
Thank you again for another brilliant analysis. I am honored to publish your work here. I pulled out the sentence placed in quotes at the top of your post because in my mind that one line says it all. In that vein, the term “audacity” really captures BO, doesn’t it?
Everyone: YES, I think it’s safe to assume that API was a hoax, so let’s move on, ok?
td
TD, Judah, Another note on info. above. IDN Menteng 1 is a public, primary school. Elite, secular, elementary school. Public, but very competative and has exceptionally high standards. Located in one of the most affluent parts of Jakarta, Indonesia. Attracts mostly mid to upper class students, among them, several of the former Dictator Suharto’s grandchildren. Barack Obama was known there as Barry Obama. Very privledged. Classmates were the President Suharto’s grandchildren. Bet you had to have connections to go there.
Question here: If it turns out that BO is not eligible and members of the DNC or other senators or congressmen were aware of the fact and supported his efforts anyways…couldn’t they be removed from office under section 3 of the 14th amendment? Or am I just wishful thinking?
Great opinion. I agree with Dr. Kate that Chief Justice Roberts would not swear in Obama as POTUS unless he knew for sure that he was Constitutionally qualified. Chief Roberts was one of the best things that Pres. Bush did besides keeping America safe after 911. We have to protect our Constitution.
BTW, please assist with getting lawsuits filed against the Secretary of States and Democrat electors of the states Obama won. Of course you would have to get either Alan keys to agree to be the plaintiff or maybe one of the other Presidential candidates. See if you can find Constitutional attorneys to work on this pro bono if possible.
Here’s a copy of the lawsuit filed in CA against SOS and Democrat electors.
http://www.soundinvestments.us/files/final_writ_keyes_v_bowen.pdf
oops, Lolo Soetoro above.
One thing this blog does is make people think, and all the points brought up here have very deep ramifications.
As I was reading the responses, a couple made reference to the sealing of his college records, an arrogant move, but, as stated one that COULD be hiding reference to foriegn born status.
Whatever the reasons are for sealing the records, the registrars of the Universities either DO know the reason , and are implicit in the the cover up, or they are just grossly inept and have allowed their snobbish opinions of our system to taint their judgement.
SOMEBEODY, or a group of somebodies who haven’t interacted yet, outside the Obama machine knows the truth, somewhere. The preponderance of doubt is becoming pervasive, albeit in an underground movement, and as stated, no one wants to open it up to public debate for fear of being railed as a racist.
Whatever the outcome of all the legal procedures, the truth must be sought out, and made public whichever side it favors. Not just so one side or the other can WIN, but, to restore the faith and base confidence in our Constitution.
Radicalsim on either side is a detraction, for the mission of either cause. Attacks made solely on the basis of personal feelings related to the parties and tenents involved serve no purpose.
A lot of tid bits of information and perspective are coming forth from a huge group of people, people who value the Constitution and what it stands for. Not just Attornies, and Scholars, but, people of every walk of life.
Sometimes the simplest things are the best answer to complex problems.
I have never thanked TD or all the others who contribute, but, I will always be grateful no matter what the outcome.
Keep peering at the monitor and re reading the posts, something just might pop out at all of us and help bring this to a palpable end
Let’s also have a Plan B in case all these early challenges are
dismissed on standing issues, or even If Obama tries to use some
Alinsky style manoeuvre to claim he is the champion of the “people”.
If Obama gets in the office, then no international treaty he ratifies
will be valid, no legislation Congress “passes” will have the force of
law, no taxes need be paid, and no government check can be
retained by the person cashing it.
In a very short time, all businesses in America will be injured and
have standing. For example, a business forced to cut it’s CO2
emissions would be validly able to sue that they don’t have to comply
with the new law as Obama isn’t the President.
Not all big companies would want to do t his, but there is a big enough
company somewhere in America to sue and fund the lawsuit.
Once foreign governments and investors get wind of it,
investor confidence in America will hit zero. No treasury bond
will be salable. Did I forget to mention that no order to the military
would need to be obeyed?
I doubt they’ve thought this thing through. You can hold
off citizen journalists, you cannot hold off the coming financial
maelstrom. It will overwhelm the government and then the
entire country.
To Missy:
your thoughts are shared here, but one thing to remember:
barack is a narcissist, and when one suffers from such a self adoration, admitting wrong will never happen.
The members of the DNC, and all others have to know that he is not eligible. So, I want to know, who’s puppy Obama really is?
I believe that Barack not being eligible will be able to get away with following some type of legal manuvering. It’s all part of game of the Alinsky style.
Narcissists are thriving upon submission by all those around them, dissent will not be tolerated.
Throughout his campaign; his followers demonstrated that by harrassing, threating even violence in some cases.
Being the naked emperor as he is, he will NEVER accept to stand down, his followers will do the dirty work for him.
I can only hope, and pray that the Supreme Court will not back down, out of fear provoking maybe mayhem.
ILBlue, the other reason he studied the constitution was to see if it could be made a “positive” document (list government obligations to citizens) and/or justify reparations (as documented by that flowchart on a picture of him lecturing).
The South, I never agreed with Justice Thomas on much so I have little faith in him going against O on this, even if O does want to impeach him. But I agree that it was good to come up with another angle.
Mishypoo, API seems to be some bogus diversion site. Plus they were spreading viruses.
DrKate, thanks for staying on this. Could be a long haul.
I’m starting to lose respect for McCain and Palin with each passing day this Obama eligibility issue continues to grow and grow.
1.My point is this: McCain should be the first one who challenges Obama’s eligibility in court, not private dedicated private citizens like Berg, Martin, Dr. Kate, and Ambassador Keyes.
2. McCain obviously has standing, and he also has a bunch of very smart Republican lawyers who would do what MaCain asked of them.
3. Instead of vigorously challenging Obama in court—they have every legal right to do so—- McCain and Palin hide in the background, while brave Americans like Berg, Martin, Dr. Kate, and Keyes try to do something that McCain and Palin don’t seem to want to do: They are trying their hardest to save this country from facing a constitutional crisis if Obama takes the oath of office on Jan. 20, 2009 to be the next President of the United States.
4. Again, where are McCain and Palin to lead the fight to have
Obama prove once and for all that he is eligible to be the next President of the United States? They are nowhere to be seen.
5. I bet, however, that if Obama is disqualified or is proven to be a liar and a fraud, McCain and Palin will have some excuse why they were too cowardly to join the brave people who love this country and the U.S. Constitution and who are willing to fight for it to the bitter end, people like private citizens Berg, Martin, and Dr. Kate.
6. NOTE: If Obama is disqualified or run out of office down the road, I bet McCain and Palin would be the first in line to grab any power they can from Obama’s disgrace.
7. McCain a Coward? And to make matters worse, and to show what a coward he is, McCain is reportedly visiting Obama today to apply for the position of Defense Secretary in the Obama cabinet!
8. Talk about a person kissing up to the enemy, an enemy who shows no respect for the laws of the Constitution of the United States as he forces the United States into a possible constitutional crisis.
9. McCain and Palin: Stand up and be counted by doing something about this Obama eligibility mess!
10. Show the people who voted for you that you still have some fight left in you to protect and preserve that wonderful document known as the Constitution of the United States.
Standing back and looking at this situation that looms large before us, as a nation we have never been at such a crossroads. I have feared Obama since I saw him speak at the DNC Convention in 2004. I was in Washington DC for the 2nd Inaugeral of Bush, and I passed Obama in a back hallway of the Senate building. He was impressive but sinister then and I refused to shake his hand when I walked by. That was the best decision I ever made–I didn’t look him in the eyes!
As to the Constitutional Crisis, this is a major test of our American spirit, of our God given freedom, and our will as a nation in how we respond. Do we let a usurper take the office without any call to prove eligiblity? We need to sit in opposistion to an ineligiable President-elect and make our voice heard. This is no small matter, but the MSM has so effectively covered everything BO has ever done, that it seems unlikely that anything will ever come of this. Will it ever gain any traction? What will be the end result? We have gone down a road that I fear we can never return from. What nation will come to our aid? We are all we have left!
The ramifications of this will last for generations….
Along with this, I read the Trojan Horse article again that was posted back in September. Very good.
There is another aspect to this: The Shia versus Sunni Islam aspect. Shia Islam has deep roots in Mombassa, Kenya, and Kenya has a special relationship with Iran.
The Imam martyr-founder of Shia Islam was called Hussein. The Shiites, politically, lean to the far Left. The Sunni tend to be more conservative, except for the fundamentalist Sunni (Wahhabism).
Shia Islam differs from Sunni in a number of ways. One of the ways would allow for the Trojan Horse idea. It is called Taqiyya, meaning, dissimulation–pretending to be something you are not, including being of a different faith–for the ultimate glory of Islam. (This is because Shiites had to feign being Sunni for survival’s sake in Sunnit dominated lands.)
Obama’s father, if not he, himself, was born in a land (Kenya) with deep Shia roots. His middle name, and that of his son, was Hussein, that of the martyr founder of Shia Islam. Shia Islam also allows for temporary marriage with non-Muslims (called Nikah Mut’ah) that are “people of the book,” i.e., Christians or Jews. The nature of Obama’s parent’s marriage seems to have followed this Shia pattern of a temporary mixed marriage.
So the Trojan Horse analogy may be very appropriate, especially if there is this other dimension of the Shiite practice of Taqqiya. It would go hand in hand with Leftwing radical doctrines as well.
To see an actual explained video of BOs selective service explanation go to
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=221543&comments=1
This interview is about 30 mins long and is with Debbie Schlussel explaining the facts…..
Thank you Dr. Kate for a very insightful article.
[link to API deleted]
I don’t know whether or not they are a hoax. It seems like a lot of trouble and potential harassment if you have nothing. I’m going to wait until 12/1 to see if anything comes from it.
RE: the MSM… Alan Keyes files a suit against the CA SOS and it’s not even on DRUDGE??? What’s up with that? I know he wants to be cautious, but we’re not talking ‘Joe Citizen’ here. He was on the ballot on 11/4, for Pete’s sake. If he doesn’t have standing, our only hope is the NJ case.
This is all so surreal. And everyone acts like we’re the nuts for thinking these questions are valid. I feel like we’re in ‘Alice in Wonderland’ or something. Stay tuned!
Dr. Kate, this is the second article you have posted here that I would rank within the top five thought provoking pieces I’ve ever read.
Who are you, Dr. Kate and where can I get more of your thoughts.
Hi to all and thank you TD for yet another brillant piece! We are not yet out of the woods. I did not realize that we could indeed write the indvidual justices to the Supreme Court concerning these lawsuit(s). Several other blogs have provided SAMPLE letters you might use in writing the individual justices. If you write you need to send it US mail as the Court does not accept email. You also should write to ALL of the justices.
DrKate, thank you for this incredibly well thought out article! There is much food for thought here!
****
I have read that there are guards stationed outside 2 different hospitals in Hawai’i to prevent anyone from asking questions about Obama’s birth records. Is this really true? It doesn’t make sense that this would be allowed, and it also doesn’t make sense that a guard would somehow overhear every single conversation between a person and the secretary at the front desk. It’s a rumor too good to be true, in other words.
Anyone feel like calling the hospitals to see if they’ll give any info out over the phone?
Queens Medical Center
Medical Records: 808.547.4361
Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women & Children
Medical Records: 808.983.8610
[...] –From TD Blog, “Four Questions for the Trogan Candidate” [...]
Kato: I think that many members of the DNC are aware of this, and technically they could all be prosecuted under RICO statutes (racketeering) for conspiring to defraud the United States and its people. IMO, I do believe they could be removed under the 14th Amendment, but also under Articles of the Constitution on “treason”. Certainly it is my hope that all who conspired to do this to America will be outed and will at the very least have to resign from their positions of “public trust”. Because they sure have violated the public trust now.
TD. Thank you, but it is I who have the honor of your support in publishing this work. Ah yes, the AUDACITY of Obama!
Our Founders were adamant about a foreign born national trying to take over our government–they refused to permit it. Just my opinion, but I do think taken together the intent is to achieve a change in our constitution through “adminstrative fiat”.
Thanks everyone for some very interesting and educational comments. I am glad I am not alone in my concern and fear for our future. Nor are we alone in our concerns!
Petition for certiorari is rarely granted. The chance that the Supreme Court will hear this case is 1 in 10,000, if not less, considering that it has no merit.
Super job, Dr. Kate! Hope this issue is resolved before January 20, 2009, because the country needs to be united in order to save the sinking economy and win two wars abroad.
Al
Gary: the case has no merit? Do you not understand the constitutional ramifications of an ineligible candidate? Or do you not believe Obama has to prove himself?
SydB. thanks for the inquiry, most of my work is posted here and at NoQuarter. Although I really haven’t done this kind of political research before, except where it affects my work (American Indian water rights, no lack of controversy there!), I am convinced that TD and Judah Benjamin’s work and insights are correct. For the love of my country I will continue to ferret out this stuff, even if I have to stay up all night reading about the law and its implications!!!
Thank you for your time in reading this article!
You all do realize that even if President-elect Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii, he is still an American citizen, because his mother is American?
Looks like Republicans are going to waste the next four years doing trumped up investigations of Obama. . . . It’s the ’90s all over again.
And, this comment will probably “mysteriously” not show up along all the other right wing banter. Way to go 1st Amendment.
This astounds me. You have gone to a great deal of time and trouble to justify your racism. I had a tough time when we had some rough times in the 2000 election–Secretary of State of Florida stopping the counting of ballots, etc. And yet, those of us who didn’t care for George W. Bush as “POTUS” got on with things. I suggest you get on with things, too, and realize that not only was Barack Obama *legally* elected to the presidency, he was *decisively* elected to that office.
Dr. Kate,
Your case is very compelling and although I would LOVE for Obama to be disqualified I am disturbed about certain facts about Obamas life that puts a monkey wrench into the cases before the courts.
It is a fact that his father was already married to a foreign woman when he came to the US. Anne Dunham agreed to marrying Obama’s father knowing about the other wife. Obama’s parents marriage would be null and void as it was not allowed by law. Polygamy was illegal in all 50 states in 1961.
by law: TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1409 § 1409. Children born out of wedlock
(c) Notwithstanding the provision of subsection (a) of this section, a person born, after December 23, 1952, outside the United States and out of wedlock shall be held to have acquired at birth the nationality status of his mother, if the mother had the nationality of the United States at the time of such person’s birth, and if the mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year.
(FYI, subsection (a) does not apply)
By law, Obama would assume the nationality status of his mother Anne Dunham.
I have been following this since the beginning and I was very pissed off when I read this info on another website. Please prove this wrong. I would love to be able to post on that forum that this information is wrong somehow.
drkate: I agree with you 100% that public servants who knew about this issue before the election and did NOT do anything about it has broken their vow to uphold the Constitution. That includes McCain, if he knew.
John Mirse: I believe that McCain did not raise the issue of Obama’s eligibility because of his own birth in Panama. I do not know whether or not Palin knows anything about Obama’s eligibility.
Remember how McCain told that woman at a rally that she doesn’t have to be afraid of Obama and that he’s a “citizen”. But with regard to eligibility to be POTUS, nobody has ever disputed that BO’s a citizen NOW (although he may not be).
In any case, it sounded to me as if McCain was simply repeating the obfuscations found on Obama’s website.
I don’t think the the OMSM will EVER report these court cases if they can avoid it. They do not want the public at large to become aware of any questions about Obama’s eligibility.
It’s to their advantage, if a court rules against Obama, that the issue suddenly come to the public’s awareness, so that they can spin it as a last-minute hatchet-job by racists. That’s how it will be spun–the evil Republicans pulling their tricks again. You know how it will go.
Right now, they are attacking Rush Limbaugh every chance they get, in order to plant it into the public’s consciousness that HE MUST BE SILENCED. They are smearing Rush Limbaugh so that the public may be more accepting of Obama’s pending reinstitution of the “Fairness” Doctrine– aka censorship of anybody who dares to disagree with The One, a la Vlad Putin and Chairman Mao, who would be SO proud, don’t ya think?
One thing that concerned individuals might do, with regard to the college records: Anybody who is an alumnus of that college, anybody who contributes money to that college, or anybody who has children currently attending that college, could register a complaint with the college.
Universities DO listen to people when their bottom line is concerned. Cut off access to their income (tuition/donations) and they tend to come around.
Another thing may be to investigate the possibility of FOIA requests if any of these colleges receive public money, and I bet that every one of them does, in one form or another.
In addition, would his student loan information be subject to an FOIA request? It’s public money, if that’s who gave him the loan. Who else “loans” money to students? If it were some other entity, such as a not-for-profit, wouldn’t it have been a gift, or grant, or scholarship?
You guys *do* realize how you sound, right?
This paranoid obsession over a birth certificate is just sad. Confront the issues at hand rather than imagining you have a chance at invalidating 70 million votes.
All the amateur legal analysis in the world won’t change the fact that Obama was born to an American citizen in America. I’m disappointed you’ve decided to fixate on this bizarre conspiracy theory rather than holding our future president accountable to his promises.
Whoops! Make that “have” in my first sentence. Sorry. Poor editing job.
About RICO prosecutions, good luck with that. I read over the weekend that Obama is going to maintain Patrick Fitzgerald as a prosecutor in Chicago so that he can continue to go after government corruption. Right. What a joke.
Bad news, unless Fitzgerald issues some indictments post haste. I forgot that BO can fire him. But I guess nobody will complain about BO’s purges of Justice. Oh, no. We’re only going to bitch about the possibility that Bush MAY have fired 8 prosecutors because (guess what?) apparently they WOULD NOT pursue allegations of VOTER FRAUD. Supporters of ACORN all, no doubt. Imagine that. Who would ever have cared about voter fraud, prior to this election?
GWB should apply Presidential Directive #51 here…and NOW!
Renee,
Sukarno was President of Indonesia when Obama was there. Suharto’s take over wasn’t until 1968. I presumed you were referring to the ruler that was in power when Obama lived there. Sorry for any confusion.
[I copied this from the "Daily Reckoning" newsletter (w/o permission but with attribution). Bonner is one of the more insightful voices around, and hilarious at the same time.]
[Reprinted from The Daily Reckoning; 2008-November-17]
O! BAMA! THE WORLD TURNS ITS WEARY EYES TO YOU…
By Bill Bonner
[Bill Bonner is the founder and editor of The Daily Reckoning. He is also the author, with Addison Wiggin, of the national best sellers Financial Reckoning Day: Surviving the Soft Depression of the 21st Century and Empire of Debt: The Rise of an Epic Financial Crisis. Bill's latest book is entitled, Mobs, Messiahs and Markets: Surviving the Public Spectacle in Finance and Politics, written with co-author Lila Rajiva.]
Mr. Obama became the president-elect of all the Americans last week. No man’s coffee tasted better on Wednesday morning than it did on Tuesday…no woman’s perfume smelled sweeter. But all over the world, people felt better about themselves, as if the human race had achieved something important.
At least a McCain victory would have caused the press to hold its tongue. Instead, commentators drew all the wrong conclusions and made fools of themselves. Some thought it meant America’s redemption from the sin of slave trade. Others saw a historic transformation that they couldn’t put in words and shouldn’t have tried.
“They did it. They really did it,” wrote the Guardian. “… [T]he American people yesterday stood in the eye of history and made an emphatic choice for change…” It’s the “End of the National Nightmare,” said TIME magazine.
Amid the effervescence came the French. Obama’s victory “arouses a wild yet reasonable hope,” claimed Bernard-Henri Levi in the Financial Times. Mr. Obama’s election will affect us in “at least three concrete ways,” he continued… a decisive turning point in dealing with the ‘racial question’ in the US… hope for an America that began doubting its “famous mission”… and with Obama representing the USA, “anti-Americanism… will have a harder time surviving and it will be forced to revisit its sales pitch.”
Nobody knows what America’s “famous mission” is – certainly not the Americans themselves. And if those are his ‘concrete’ ways, we’re glad Mr. Levi is not building bridges. There was nothing concrete about the hopes Mr. Obama’s victory arouse. Just the contrary…they are all in the ether.
They shouldn’t let French philosophers comment on American politics; they take the whole thing far too seriously. Besides, you never know what they are talking about anyway. But Le Monde saw it clearer. Not only was the paper happy to see the United States finally rinse the stain of racism out of the Stars and Stripes, it was glad to see Americans give free market capitalism the flush too.
Obama will be “reviving the role of regulation in the U.S.; [devising] tax policies to smooth out increasingly wide socio-economic divides; planning a health-care system appropriate to the country’s wealth,” said the paper. In other words, he will be putting in a system of state-directed capitalism, just like they have in France.
None of the commentators we read really understood Obama’s triumph. They saw it in a yearning for truth and a stretch for progress. It was nothing of the sort. The last thing voters want is the truth; they will reject it if it is put in front of them. Instead, what they want is diversion from the real world. What they hope to get from their leaders is a kind of entertainment…in short, a fantasy. Something to cheer them up when they are down. Or something to give them a fright when they are up.
You’ll recall from last week, the last period of Great Calamity – 1914-1945, with its wars, epidemics, Dust Bowls, hyperinflation, Great Depression, mass murders, bankruptcy and revolutions. It was in the middle of this period that Americans elected Franklin Roosevelt, who told them they had “nothing to fear but fear itself.” It was all in their heads! It was a whopper, but it was the whopper they wanted to hear.
And then, on right side of the Atlantic, Britain chose Winston Churchill as prime minister, in May 1940. Churchill crossed his fingers and put his hand behind his back immediately, claiming that Britain was not fighting to save its overseas empire, but to “save the whole world.” He promptly kicked out any official who was “exercising a disturbing or depressing influence,” that is, any who dared to tell the truth about Britain’s disastrous military situation.
Just weeks later – in France, after suffering the most humiliating defeat in their history, the French recalled an old man to power, Philippe Petain. The hero of Verdun made the French feel that they had just regained their national glory, not just lost it. But at the time, France’s fantasy seemed on more solid ground than Britain’s…which just goes to show how unreliable history can be. Sometime make-believe becomes real; usually, it doesn’t. Britain got the backing of the Roosevelt administration – which had promised voters to keep America out of the war – and beat the huns; Churchill died a hero. Petain died in disgrace.
Today, in the U.S.A., the Bush Administration has worked hard to make people fearful – with its torture chambers and preposterous “threat levels.” But the terrorists wouldn’t cooperate; they failed to blow up even a trash truck. Alas, now the mob sweats – and for good reason. People are afraid of losing their houses, their jobs, and their retirements. Losses in equities worldwide top $25 trillion. In U.S. housing alone, some $4 trillion has disappeared. That’s why Obama won; it has nothing to do with national redemption or Sarah Palin. When the world was safe and plush…the mob wanted to feel the frisson of danger. What the public wants now is safety: a movie with a happy ending, not a horror flick. Obama appeared the calmer, more intelligent, candidate. Voters could imagine him as the “black Roosevelt” giving soothing fireside chats and telling the lies they most wanted to hear.
And so, in the national narrative, one cockamamie bamboozle takes the place of the one that went before. Americans were supposed to be fearful; now they are supposed to be confident. They were supposed to be racists; now they are supposed to colorblind. They were supposed to defend free market capitalism to their last breath; now they turn to the state and beg it to protect their last dime.
1. It all sounds like a movie. If I were writing the movie, I’d have McCain be in on it — brainwashed in North Vietnam. Though I’m not sure who the hero is yet.
2. It’s pretty easy to cut and paste from the final_writ_keyes_v_bowen-1.pdf document, thus:
I could email you the entire text if you like.
3. If it doesn’t get settled before the Inauguration, does the court case have to stop?
4. As a last resort, there are always the impeachment hearings…
btw, the OMSM demonizing Limbaugh is a classic Alinsky tactic: personalize the enemy so that you can more easily attack and defeat “him”, in this case any media outlet that does not promote The One.
All over the OMSM you hear attacks against Limbaugh. It’s no coincidence. It’s a plan to make Limbaugh the personification of talk radio and any other medium that they believe MUST be silenced, because these are the only media that do not simply regurgitate The One’s message.
Did you happen to see Kelsey Grammer on Fox last night? He said that when he first went to Hollywood, he was FORCED by his employer to “donate” $10,000 to Barbara Boxer. If he didn’t, he would lose his job. It was as simple as that.
So any person who doesn’t march in lockstep with the “progressives” in Hollywood is blacklisted (or blackmailed). Only when a person becomes extremely popular can he then speak his mind freely, without being punished monetarily for it.
Grammer went on to talk about the “intolerance” of the Hollywood community. Imagine that: The very people who scream the loudest about the importance of “tolerance” and “diversity” can NOT tolerate diversity of thought in their own community.
When you think about it, there must be a law against blackmailing a person to “donate” to a particular candidate in order to keep a job. Oh, wait. I forgot. Laws are applied only in the case of “conservatives.”
gary
“The chance that the Supreme Court will hear this case is 1 in 10,000, if not less, considering that it has no merit.”
Your figure of “1 in 10,000″ is as wrong as your assertion that the case has “no merit.” And both are as inflated as your opinion of yourself. Bugger off, you malignant moron!
Gary (obamaot troll), don’t you think Obama doesn’t need to have you paid to get on this blog?
I forgot, Hitler thinks he still runs the American People like he runs you.
To MIKE: you must look at the law first before you quote absurd things. Ms. Dunham could not transmit her citizenship only if she reached the age of 19 years. On August 4, 1961, Ms. Dunham was 18 years old (not 19) under Section 301(a)(7) Of the Immigration and Nationality Act.
So even if Obama was born outside the U.S., he could not have citizenship transferred to him because his mom lacked the necessary age.
I do NOT believe that API was a hoax.
I believe that they are in Canada, after having archived the site. I believe mountainsage.com was closed down because of API complaint to FBI.
I beleive mountainsage.com complained to Secret Sevice about “death threats” on API (supposedly).
I believe API will be back up and running after the tape airs and the Islamic birth documents are shown.
“Patience is a virtue.” I will give them until January 20th if that is what it takes. Let us remain hopeful.
“rational” psychic–an oxymoron, no?
Sorry, charging me with racism is laughable. But your comment that my concerns about the US Constitution are the means of “justifying your racism” just shows that you are woefully uniformed. You know, “race” is not the root of criticisms of Obama.
But your comment shows exactly what I was talking about: in defense of the constitution we will be called racist.
Its just another Alinsky technique.
But dude, calling people “racist” is SO OVER. You’ve exhausted that line and the line does not fit when questioning Obama’s constitutional qualifications.
Another scary story about the “security force”:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/obama_fear_and_the_security_fo.html
Regardless if you support or against Obama, the article is fascinating. It is an OPINION based on inferences. In a free society, we are allowed to express on our opinions based on facts given.
Until we loose our freedom, we all should allow freedom of expression.
Camille Ramlow: Good point. I saw on Atlas Shrugs that someone threatened her with what sounds very similar to your proposed scenario for what happened with API. An Obama troll said that he was monitoring her site for “threats” against The One. He threatened to report her to various agencies if, in his opinion, she got out of line in her criticism. (Sounds sort of like that Obama Truth Squad in MO.) One of their goals may be to get blog hosts to ban any site that doesn’t fall into line with the Obama program. Might be what happened to API.
I don’t care if API is full of it or not. They should not be banned. That’s against the spirit of free speech. Who was it who said that the solution to free speech you don’t agree with is more free speech? If you don’t like what you read, either put in your two cents to counter it or just go elsewhere.
JFred,
The court case will not stop even if he is inaugurated. IN fact everyone in the US will have standing to sue if that happens!
If he is ineligible, impeachment doesn’t even apply–he can’t hold the office so he can’t be impeached.
He will simply be arrested by the FBI and escorted out of the WH when the eligibility issue comes crashing through the White House gate.
I saw the HI announcement. I notice that the long form BC was “unaccessed”. This means to me that Barry does not have it and knows there is something on it that disqualifies him.
He is trying to “run out the clock” before he is found out.
rationalpsychic
This astounds me. You have gone to a great deal of time and trouble to justify your racism. I had a tough time when we had some rough times in the 2000 election–Secretary of State of Florida stopping the counting of ballots, etc. And yet, those of us who didn’t care for George W. Bush as “POTUS” got on with things. I suggest you get on with things, too, and realize that not only was Barack Obama *legally* elected to the presidency, he was *decisively* elected to that office.
*********************************************
Racism??? ROTFLMAO! The color of his skin had NOTHING to do with him “STEALING, LYING, BUYING, INTIMIDATING” his way into the presidency. He is a corrupt, lying cheat…plain and simple! And for the record…someone should inform him…HE HAS MORE CAUCASIAN BLOOD RUNNING THROUGH HIS VEINS THAN NEGRO! Funny how he seems to forget that detail to his bloodline?
Also funny how all of the corruption Obama is involved with and you are astounded by “honest Americans” wanting him to prove he is who he says he is. When a child gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar…the first thing they do is hide their hand behind their back. Then, they proceed to lie about ever being in the cookie jar in the first place….hmm
Mickey Mouse was also registered to vote by Obama’s ACORN group, was that legal by your standards too?
Somehow, a rodent (Mickey Mouse) does seem to fit the whole Obama campaign.
rationalpsychic
Schmuck!
The Obama candidacy has been planned for a long time, and the “powers that be” and those who were involved in the “fix” knew all of this and carefully covered up everything. If the main stream media had done its job, Obama would now be history. But since they were complicit in the cover-up, knowingly or otherwise, by not doing any real research on the candidate, it was all just as he wanted it. If he was not covering up anything, he would just release the birth certificate and happily end the controversy. It may be he is covering up his citizenship, or perhaps illegitimacy. Perhaps he has lied about who is real father is or a host of other reasons. IMO, Mr. Obama has perpetrated a hoax on the American people of great magnitude, the full extent of which may not be known for some time. The real story of Barack Obama has yet to be unraveled. For all our sakes, I hope it has a happy ending.
Miri on November 17, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Thanks for the “Am. Thinker” article. What do you know? Two 20th cetury crazies were bang on. Sen. Joe McCarthy and FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover were right about the Red Menace. Gives a whole new meaning to, “What goes around comes around.”
I have written the USDOJ asking similar questions, with no reply to date (8 weeks ago).
Here’s an interesting article, regarding impressions of our politics, today, written by a foreigner:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1084111/PETER-HITCHENS-The-night-waved-goodbye-America–best-hope-Earth.html#
You know…I wonder how much Obamabots get paid each time they call someone a racist!!!
drkate: Very thoughtful and compelling article!
Mike,
I believe that according to American law, Ann was married to Obama Sr. For American law citizenship purposes, then, a married woman had to reside in the US for 10 years, 5 of which are after the age of 14.
http://www.cusc.org/8734.html
According to factcheck, quote, “When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948.
Factcheck continues: “That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.’s children.
Factcheck continues: “Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.” End quote.
Thus, this is a direct admission that Barack Obama was a British citizen “at birth”.
The most overlooked words in that section are: “…or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution…” You must recall that most, if not all, of the framers of the Constitution were, at birth, born as British subjects.
Stop and think about that.
The chosen wording of the Framers of our Constitution makes it clear that they had drawn a distinction between themselves – persons born subject to British jurisdiction – and “natural born citizens” who would not be born subject to British jurisdiction or any other jurisdiction other than the United States. And so the Framers grandfathered themselves into the Constitution as being eligible to be President. But the grandfather clause only pertains to any person who was a Citizen… at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution.
Obama was definitely not a natural born Citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution on September 17, 1787, and so he is not grandfathered in.
And so, for Obama or anybody else to be eligible to be President, they must be a “natural born citizen” of the United States “at birth”. It should be obvious that the Framers intended to deny the Presidency to anybody who was a British subject, or any other nationality “at birth”.
I don’t know what to think of API. The amount of stuff produced over there is too large and varied to be a fraud. Yet what they claim and their repeated teasers and delays are preposterous. But for those of you who are amused by watching their twisting and turning over there, they are now up on a new site: [link deleted]
PS – as one who is so amused, there is no evidence or no indication in anything that I have seen over there to warrant a TOS violation. So, in their favor, I find the fact that they were shut down quite frightening.
Camille Ramlow,
Mountain Sage has not been shut down. It is a PUMA site. Got there to read about the API fraud – and it was a fraud.
Besides, who would really care what Michelle Obama said to them? There is no legal standing for it, and the election’s over. We need to move on from that dead horse.
Dr. Kate,
As always, excellent thoughts.
To DrKate – you rock.
To rationalpsychic and anyone else who wants to accuse me of being a racist:
First of all, you don’t know me well enough to make that assumption. How do you know my husband isn’t of a different race than me? How do you know what race I am? Who really cares?
Secondly, since when is it ‘racist’ to want to know more about a person who wants to be our president? When did it become ‘racist’ to question someones qualifications to do any job, including become our president? Why is it ‘racist’ to negatively judge someone by the company he keeps, the comments he makes, and the issues he supports and avoids? I’m entitled to my opinion, and I am so tired of being called a ‘racist’ simply because I’m voicing an opinon that differs from yours. Frankly, I pride myself on being able to see the big picture, to analyze, to weigh pros and cons, to listen to differing opinions and to accurately decide what seems reasonable – to me. I don’t give a rats *%$ what color my president is, or anyone else for that matter – I care about character, values and beliefs – my own as well as the man who wants to be my president, and the people who want to be my friends.
So, to anyone who still wants to call me a racist, please come up with something else that actually means something, because, as a result of this election, the word ‘racist’ has ceased to mean anything.
Issues, excellent point. Not much room for nuance there.
I insist that our country has processes if we want to amend the constitution to allow dual citizens to hold POTUS.
Grail Guardian,
When I go to mountainsage.com it says he site is for sale.
I joined PUMAs way back, but I don’t see this mountainsage.com anywhere.
I see the posted link for API has been deleted from the earlier post.
All of this race card talk is junk, as far as I am concerned. It is not about race, religion, or bad moods due to DNC game-playing. It is about protecting our nation from interlopers, such as foreigners who would love to mess up our government.
Things are bad enough with our economic problems, we do not need political failure as well.
I feel President Bush should step in and use PResidential Directive #51, until such time as our Supreme Court deals with this dispute, or Congress handles it.
I don’t want GWB to have a 3rd term, but I do want political stability.
I know there are a great many who voted for Obama. I am a registered Democrat, but I chose not to vote, since these questions are very troubling to me. He says he will quickly un-do much that has been done during the previous administration. I would not want to see that, unless he is proven to be qualified. I would love to see almost all of what GWB did deleted! But, that should be done by a valid President, not by someone who refuses to prove himself.
Had he produced the vault copy of his birth certificate and proven his validity, I would have loved to have worked for his campaign. But, he did not.
If nothing else comes of all of this, I want to see it cleaned up before 2012. I never want to see this type of election difficulty ever again!
Depending upon the possible violence that could come with this, we could have serious strife in this country. Bush could hold this mess until it is settled.
As far as I am concerned, whether you are a PUMA, Obama supporter, ot what…you should all want to see our Constitution upheld. If you do not like how it is being defined, work to change the definition.
john mirse…Let’s not forget to put Hillary in that mess with John and Sarah….I dont see her pushing the envelope either..
Dr. Kate
OUTSTANDING article!
To Objective Observer:
YOU must look at the law first before you tell me I need to check the law before quoting absurd things:
This amendemnt in the law reduces the age requirement of Obama’s mother from 19 down to 16 and is clear that it is RETROACTIVE to Obama’s birth.
Immigration and Nationality Technical Corrections Act of 1994 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)
TITLE I–NATIONALITY AND NATURALIZATION
SEC. 101. EQUAL TREATMENT OF WOMEN IN CONFERRING CITIZENSHIP TO CHILDREN BORN ABROAD.
(c) RETROACTIVE APPLICATION- (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the immigration and nationality laws of the United States shall be applied (to persons born before, on, or after the date of the enactment of this Act) as though the amendment made by subsection (a), and subsection (b), had been in effect as of the date of their birth, except that the retroactive application of the amendment and that subsection shall not affect the validity of citizenship of anyone who has obtained citizenship under section 1993 of the Revised Statutes (as in effect before the enactment of the Act of May 24, 1934 (48 Stat. 797)).
(LINK)
The INTCA of 1994 made the current United States Immigration Law effetive retroactive back to the date of Obama’s birth. As such no matter where he was born (Hawaii or Kenya) location would not have mattered as Stanley Ann Dunham (Mother) would only have to have been 16 to be able to transfer citizenship Jus sanguinis (citizenship by blood). Since she was 18 at his birth, she would have qualified under current US Code.
UNITED STATE CODE
TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years…
Trust me. I’m not happy about this. I would love to see Obama get legitimately disqualified but the law is the law on that issue.
This is something I followed closely throughout the election, and it astounded me that it was never brought into the MSM as a legitimate issue. Even some respectable news outlets wouldn’t touch it…I believe for fear of being labeled racist.
Because…God forbid we challenge a black man.
I haven’t thought about it much since the end of the election…I figured the damage had been done.
BUT…the fact remains, that this could happen again. And we need to make sure it doesn’t.
~T the D
http://thedrunkelephant.blogspot.com/
To Issues and others who say that Hawaii was still a British Colony in 1961.
Hawaii Becomes our 50th State:
Under increasing U.S. influence, the population of Hawaii grew and its economy grew as well, as the islands increased sugar and pineapple production to satisfy the U.S. mainland.
Hawaii’s importance as a military outpost became critical when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. This brought the United States as well as Hawaii into World War II.
Following the war’s end in 1945, the state took a long journey toward statehood. On August 21, 1959, Hawaii was admitted to the union as our 50th state.
http://www.americaslibrary.gov/cgi-bin/page.cgi/jb/modern/hawaii_3
Hi TD,
Great work as always.
Found that Obama has finally acknowledged he was born a British Kenyan citizen on his Web Page “Fight the Smears”. Here is the link I found:
http://obambi.wordpress.com/2008/11/17/the-great-pretender/
Hope this is helpful to you and Judah Benjamin.
http://www.nbcaugusta.com/news/local/34587804.html
Former Obama opponent now suing to prove President-elect’s citizenship
To flygirl:
I totally agree with you. The word rascist has been used so much in this election for no reason, that it has absolutely lost it’s meaning.
We’re not allowed to voice our opinions on any topic because we’re being rascist? Who gives a crap? What about Michael Steeles? He’s black, a Republican and was a McCain supporter. Is he a rascisit?
As far as I’m concerned, no one will tell me what opinions I can have about anyone in public office no matter what color their skin is because I pay their salary through my taxes. They can blow it out their ear.
As an aside, a lot of my friends are of different skin color and race and they all feel exactly the same. They’re tired of this Chicago b.s. rascism Obama has instilled in his cult following.
It’s just an agenda for his self coronation.
[...] Four Questions For The Trojan Candidate “We assume that in fact no one would dare to run for and claim the Presidency if he/she didn’t meet the [...] [...]
Dr. Kate, or anyone who knows, when you speak of various DNC officials who know about Obama and the fact that they are complicit in this crime…well, does that also apply to the HI official/s who gave that statement? If they said they saw the BC and verified its presence and that is was his, then they must have seen the name “Barry Soetoro” if they have the one changed at his adoption. If they saw that and realize it causes a problem for his eligibility and they don’t come forward, are they complicit, too?
I’m curious who many of you think knows – name names.
Bravo Flygirl!
To Mike: After reading many blogs, I have seen it written that status of natural born citizen must be present AT THE TIME OF BIRTH. A law passed over 20 years later can retroactively make Obama a citizen, but not a natural born citizen.
copper—Kenya, not HI, was a british colony until 1963. Obama–if born in Kenya in 1961 would thus have had british citizenship first because of his father, and NO US citizenship because of the restrictions on married women who gave birth overseas regarding her age.
Then, in 1963 he would have automatically received Kenyan Citizenship, which lapsed in 1982 because he had to affirmatively declare Kenyan citizenship. Question: did he have a Kenyan passport ever? Anyway, he clearly had indonesian citizenship through the age of 18, and traveled to Pakistan using an Indonesian passport at that age…
On or before age 18 he would have had to declare his citizenship as US and he would thus be a naturalized US citizen, an “american citizen” under the 14th amendment.
Again, if obama was not born in HI (and his vault copy COLB would show that), he would never have had original US citizenship, only british. He would have had to be a naturalized citizen. Conclusion: ineligible.
If he was born in the US, he had dual citizenship at birth: british and US. Conclusion: ineligible
When he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, he had and may still have indonesian citizenship (psst where is that indonesian passport, Barry?). Conclusion: Ineligible
Wow. I think we are in a mess.
Clara, my personal opinion is that the State of HI officials said exactly all they could say….and saying they saw one of “barack obama” is also a “safe answer” as it gives them plausible reason to not mention ‘barry soetoro’. jmho.
There is a link upthread that talks about every SOS in the country being held liable for not vetting obama as is their duty to validate all candidates.
It seems literally everyone assumed he met the qualifications, that actually no one would DARE to run for POTUS. TD is right-brings a whole new meaning to the word “audacity”.
Correction: Obama’s trip to Pakistan in 1981 has him at age 20, not 18. oops! ‘fuzzy’ math!
Just a little earlier on Fox, I believe it was O’Reilly talking about Dodd “coming clean” about his home loan and relationship with Countrywide. Apparently, this is really heating up and being covered at least on Fox. It was interesting they consider that newsworthy (cause they said so) and they are calling for Dodd to make it all go away by coming clean with the documents to prove he had no special treatment. I’m wondering what is so different about Obama, the question of eligibility and the lawsuits that they can say the exact same thing and have it apply to him? Produce the documents, come clean and clear yourself. Otherwise, lots of people are going to wonder if you are legit, and the drumbeat will just grow louder.
Dr. Kate, I have to point out that there is a conditional in the first paragraph: to a married woman. We don’t know, actually, the status of her marriage any more than we know the status of the BC.
I say to you today, my friends, so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.
I have a dream today.
I have a dream that one day, all across America, that vicious word “racist” will find its end, when people can no longer use it because it no longer has a meaning.
I have a dream today.
flygirl – YOU rock! I couldn’t agree more. Who gives a rats arse what color, religion or gender he is! I don’t. Never have. And I’m sick to death of being labeled a racist simply b/c they, Axelrod and company, have marketed and branded that crap.
Dr. Kate – excellent article. followed the thread all day and am grateful to all who have weighed in. We are in deep shit. No question. Judah kinda told us about that prior to the election in one of his posts. BUT I’m grateful to you for following this tale and assisting by sharing, and pulling all of the loose ends together for all who are reading to understand the crisis at hand. I’ve forwarded it onto several individuals who may not be as engaged as I am but are as concerned.
Rationalphyschic – you go ahead and portray yourself as a psychic b/c by no means are you RATIONAL. You my friend are a fool! Hurling your crappola simply tells me you are incapable of accepting ANY responsibility for your willingness to be duped and to vote for a fraudulent candidate. No offense to you men out there, but, by george, I’d bet you’re a white guy full of guilt who thinks he’s righted his prejudice soul by voting for a black guy. Wish ya luck with that. You’re gonna need it!
I’d suggest if you truly want to cleanse that prejudice soul of yours – go into the inner city and volunteer for a homeless shelter. Regularly! I’d rather you stay home the next election rather than a cast a guilty vote JUST to make YOU feel better. Many of us D’s didn’t fall for the marketing ploy but it appears YOU did.
This woman is sick to death of the misogyny and purported racism you white MEN and uninformed white WOMEN want to throw my way simply b/c I didn’t vote for Barry. You own your vote. Not me. I did everything I could to be informed before voting on November 4, why the hell didn’t YOU!
Yeah, I’m pissed! My country. YOUR COUNTRY is in a CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS because of your white guilt! GD get the hell over it. YOU fell hook, line and sinker for Axelrod’s campaign message. Get some damned critical thinking skills, and read opposing thoughts AND challenge yourself to arrive at your independent thought or opinion.
It would be refreshing!!! AND WELCOMED!!!
Copperpeony, I believe is a troll. A very sophisticated one, but one never-the-less.
The bottom line is, and will remain, why doesn’t he simply show a vaulted birth certificate? Participating in all other discussion is simply allowing the trolls to fog the view.
If Obama was born in HI and a hospital there had proof of it, wouldn’t you think that hospital would be cashing in on the hoop-la! “Birthplace of Barack Obama”, etc. “Have your baby in the same hospital where BO was born.”
But not one is doing so!
Nor has any doctor, nurse, or anyone else claimed to have been involved in his birth — just his paternal grandmother, and she says she was at his birth in KENYA!
BO is 47. Adults alive when he was born would be in their 70s and 80s. Yet no one recalls his birth there?? Too strange. Seems like someone should suggest to the Mombasa, Kenya, hospital that they capitalize on it. “Kenya- birthplace of American presidents!”
To Marnie,
In all of the blogs, forums and articles that I have read, no one can definatively say for sure what the exact definition of Natural Born is. In my opinion, I think that Obama is not natural born, but my post was to show OBJECTIVE OBSERVER that he shouldn’t act in such an arrogant manner telling me I have to read the law. He/she obviously did not investigate enough.
Whether or not Obama is proven to be natural born, I posted a law that debunked the points that people have made here and elsewhere about Obama’s mother needing to be 19. She only needed to be 16 according to the 1994 law I posted above here.
You also said: “A law passed over 20 years later can retroactively make Obama a citizen, but not a natural born citizen” How do you know this. Do you have proof of this, is it just your opinion, or a statement you read off another blog. I have seen raging debate and arguments on both sides and even constitutional attorneys saying that they don’t know and in the end it may be up to the SCOTUS to rule. Again, in my opinion, I believe he is not natural born.
an observer – answer to your question – he doesn’t have one that confirms he is a natural born citizen b/c he wasn’t born in the US OR his mother wasn’t of legal age to give him such status before departing the US to live in Indonesia with her husband, Lolo Soetoro.
I don’t have 4 questions for the Kenyan-British-U.S.-Indonesian citizen, or whatever country is the citizen flavor of the month for this liar and fraud president-elect Obama.
However, I do have 3 questions for Obama, or whoever he is:
Question #1. “Why don’t you stand up like a man and allow Hawaii to release your long form birth certificate—the one with the names of the doctor and your birth hospital on it?”
Question #2. ” Why don’t you stand up like a man and give your Hawaii birth hospital permission to release your birth records of 47 years ago, Aug. 4, 1961?”
(Obama, to be honest with you, I don’t think such a Hawaii hospital or such hospital records exist.)
Question #3. “My goodness, what terrible thing could have happened 47 years ago at your Hawaii birth that would cause you to claim—in a court of law— that the release of your Hawaii long form birth certificate and your Hawaii birth hospital record would embarrass you, or make you suffer in some other way today as a 47 grown man, an adult?”
To Mike,
I guess all our discussion is why the Supreme Court must give cert to either the Berg or Donofrio case. How can they pass up the responsibility to clarify this constitutional issue which clearly has not been addressed previously?
This is similar to the issue of the right to bear arms which the Supreme Court finally ruled on.
Camille
http://rosettasister.wordpress.com/
http://themountainsage.wordpress.com/
TD- If you don’t want to post these that’s ok but I keep seeing people asking about this. I certainly won’t hurt my feelings. ( but if you post the links please delete this note to you ) Thank you .
Perhaps you find this festival of hysteria, lies, and sheer fiction entertaining. I imagine the little hothouse community that frequents this blog is all hopped up on Having an Illegal Alien Terrorist as president. Does it soothe your wounded psyches? Make you feel important and In the Loop? Unfortunately, WordPress, in its infinite wisdom, decided to feature your post, so the rest of us got to experience your cloistered insanity.
Have some facts to go with your mountain of horse puckey.
1. The Hawaii Department of Health has certified Obama’s birth certificate as genuine.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
2. Here’s an image of the certificate.
http://www.barackobama.com/images/fts/BO_birthcert.jpg
No, you can’t handle it yourself, any more than I could waltz into wherever you were born and demand a true copy of yours. So I guess you can squeal about “fraud! fake!” if you like. Idiots.
3. World Net Daily, a slobbering drivel machine for far right loons like yourselves, has admitted the certificate is authentic:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214
What’s sad is that instead of dealing with the facts–your crazed, hate-based “conservatism” has been thoroughly discredited by events and roundly repudiated at the polls–you’d rather leap around like a gaggle of virtual howler monkeys, pretending to Know a Secret about the incoming president and challenging everything he does from sign a bill to sleep in the White House because of this lunatic, completely disproven theory.
But you idiots just keep howling and flinging fecal missiles. The rest of us are busy cleaning up the eight years of catastrophic mess that your president has left us. Post away, folks. Enjoy your little Obama Haters Club. We’re over here, working. At least while you’re howling and squalling, you’re not getting in the way of the real people doing the real work. If you can’t actually do anything constructive, then at least stay out from underfoot.
Since I’m sure you moderate, I doubt this post will ever see the light of day. God forbid you let any facts or dissenting views into your little treehouse.
an observer
on November 17, 2008 at 11:14 pm “Copperpeony, I believe is a troll. A very sophisticated one, but one never-the-less.”
DEAD WRONG!!!!
Max,
I’m sure you think yourself quite clever, and a writer of intellectual superiority.
I wish I had time to rebut every element of your snob-festival of a comment, but would instead direct you to read the body of work on this blog.
If you take the time to do so, you’ll see that 1) we’re not conservatives, 2) we’re not ignorant, and 3) we’ve covered the issues with extensive research.
What baffles me is why you would even bother to log on and submit such a wordy rebuttal on a blog that you consider so beneath contempt.
You epitomize the Obama elitist class. Empty rhetoric.
TD,
Not only that, but as a teacher of college English for close to 40 years, I can tell you with utmost authority that the prose style of yon “Max” is as lacking as his subsance. You know: he’s a moron.
Read, “substance”
To an observer:
I think it’s laughable that you think I am a troll.
If I wasn’t so tired in defending McCain and Palin and attacking Obama for months on this site, I would say you are a moron. In fact you are.
You have absolutely no right in attacking me on this point. Where did you come up with this? What have I said for you to jumpt to this conclusion?
If you’re new to this site, then I suggest you keep your comments to your self unless you have definitive proof or else apologise.
There are archives on this site which you can look through and assess my comments. Otherwise, you can go to hell.
Sorry TD, “an observer” is an ass and I have a thin skin after all that we have fought for here and are continuing to fight for.
By the way Mr. “ass – an observer”, I had my own website on John McCain’s site and if you google my name you will see that.
To Mary,
Thank you very much for your defense. I appreciate it.
copperpeony on November 18, 2008 at 1:26 am
You’re very welcome, peony. I’m sorry you were subjected to that poster’s stupid comment. Judging from his other comments over time, the person is not himself a troll, but he does seem to have trolls on the brain.
Anyway, we know you’re one of us.
ILBlue,
Thank you so much for the links!
#
Mary
TD,
Not only that, but as a teacher of college English for close to 40 years, I can tell you with utmost authority that the prose style of yon “Max” is as lacking as his subsance. You know: he’s a moron.
#
on November 18, 2008 at 1:08 am Mary
Read, “substance”
*snurfle*
As a teacher of college English for ten years, I thoroughly enjoy when appeals to ethos in the attempt to bully (and that, inevitably, drastically lack in substance) backfire.
Ah, the pedants of yore wretchedly wind their way into obsolescence.
A lot of people in 2008 are calling people racists, and it doesn’t have anything to do with race. It has everything to do with them not liking your opinion; therefore they call you a rascist in order to squash your freedom. Americans have the fundamental right to question their leaders and use common sense. Many young people are sadly not being taught this right as evidenced by the election. All we want to know is ,”Where’s the BC?”
You guys, keep thinking and questioning. We can not all become zombies.
To: An Observer. Yes we have our share of trolls here, as well as a very sophisticated copperpeony. You got that part correct at least. She has been growing here a long while, unlike you. If you had bothered to read up on this site, you would realize how stupid your post reads to us here. Do your homework a bit before posting on one of us here again. Please.
Max must be new to this.
All you have to do is ask yourself, why does Obama have 3 teams of lawyers fighting the release of his birth certificate? WHY??
Dick Cheney is a Republican.
Claimed he supported McCain.
In fact, stated that publicly the week before the election.
A move which all knew was a kiss of death since it was necessary for McCain to distance himself from the current administration to have any chance of winning.
The fact is that there was a lot of behind the scenes Republican support for Obama (actually his puppet masters, big time international hedge fund money).
BAJ, repeatedly people ask why the hospital doesn’t come out and shout from the rooftops they are The One where The One was born.
If you have gone to a doctor or dentist or hosptial in the last 5 years you have been asked to sign a privacy statement for your records to go to the insurance company. Surely, you’ve heard of HIPAA and the fact that its against the law to release ANY INFORMATION about a person without their permission. Nurses, doctors, anyone who works with patient records are all bound by this law and would pay a pretty penny for violating the law. It wouldn’t mean any celebration for the hospital- they’d be looked upon as lawbreakers and patients wouldn’t want to go there to have their privacy violated.
texas darlin: Any luck trying to place a number next to the poster’s name? Just wondering.
Is it my computer, because I don’t see a number by any poster’s name. Thanks.
john mirse,
WordPress informed me that the numbering feature for this theme was de-activated, as part of a normal upgrade process.
I requested that it be added back, but no luck so far…
Clara,
I don’t think HIPPA should be a barrier.
The real question is why Barack Obama doesn’t proudly state which hospital he was born in, and permit that hospital to put up a plaque memorializing his birthplace, or something.
WHY HIDE THE INFORMATION???? if he has nothing to hide…
Max, I am speaking from me own dear tree-house to you, my friend.
Do you think that the US Presidential election of 2008 is similar to the election of 1860? Thomas Sowell compares it to that — yet in his analogy it is the winner, Obama, who would be the John C. Breckinridge (D, Ky). I agree that in this election the South finally won. What was the cause of the South? Slavery, for sure, but skip over that for now. In the South the preferred rule was by an elite landed class where access to process of law depended on one’s social status, in the North it was a rough and tumble corrupt democracy, but where access to process of law was the same to all. The Republicans managed a win in 1860; in 2008 they are vanquished. I can make more analogies but I am interested in your read.
I hope none see this as being off topic — for I ask on this Four Questions thread, because we as a nation are at a perhaps irreversible breakpoint in access to process of law. Will the Supreme Court take this matter of Presidential Qualifications up or will the Judges Sitting continue to deny citizens access?
(Not to cloud the question just asked, yet in my view it may be that two elections in 1932 were closer. And both were in places Obama made speeches. Still my question is re 1860 to 2008 comparisons.)
Alan Keyes answers Obama’s Kenyan Birth Question here. He answers the question of dual-loyalty obliquely, re: black community:
http://www.keyesarchives.com/transcripts.php
Steve Matzberg Show (WABC, New York, August 15, 2004)
MALZBERG: And, of course, Obama born to a Kenyan and, I believe, a white American female–you believe without that history cannot feel what you feel to that extent?
KEYES: Well, I wouldn’t want to make any judgments, but I think that folks need to think about this, because the contrast in our views is related to the fact that I have been wrestling with something all my life that perhaps he hasn’t had to take as seriously.
Clara: Since you seem to know about HIPAA, can you answer whether or not it applies to the dead? If so, then under what circumstances?
As I stated before, I was able to obtain a pathology report for a deceased relative simply by requesting it.
Why can’t someone ask the various hospitals whether or not Stanley Ann Dunham Obama was a patient on 8/4/61?
btw, so much for privacy “rules”: I was recently in a doctor’s waiting room and over heard the secretary speaking loudly on the phone about some guy’s pending vasectomy. She gave his name and social security number loud enough for everyone to hear. I might have known the guy. I might have been an identity thief. As I said, so much for privacy.
Would HIPAA apply to a retired nurse or doctor simply mentioning that he or she was present when BO was born?
Max: You know, we unreal people need representation, too, and also a place to vent, so if you don’t like us, buzz off. Besides, YOU represent the “real” people who are all for censorship. I guess you have noticed that TD DID post your insulting, pseudointellectual treatise. How’s that “Fairness” Doctrine going for you guys?
Had a thought last night: Is it possible that Obama Sr. is the person who brought Obama Jr. back to Hawaii, which is why there’s a photo of them at an airport around the time BO re-appeared in Hawaii? Could it be that Stanley Ann sent BO to Kenya from Indonesia and from there Obama Sr. brought him to Hawaii, using his Kenyan passport? Is it possible that BO was an “exchange student” during his time at Punahou?
It’s been proposed that one reason they won’t release his college records is that he was registered as a foreign student.
If he did arrive in Hawaii on a Kenyan passport, would that constitute acceptance of Kenyan citizenship and thus negate his claim that Kenyan citizenship automatically expired when he turned 18?
you raise some valid points.
Today (Nov 18th) is the 30th anniversary of the Jonestown tragedy. Jim Jones had a lot of extremist Leftwing ideas and ways to impliment them that remind me Obama’s. He had a weird charisma, too, with fanatic followers that would follow him even to death. The derisive term, “kool aid drinkers” comes from that.
Check out this website and play the video. I’m looking forward to the entire documentary:
http://www.howobamagotelected.com/
Dr. Kate,
Thank you for a great and very thorough article indeed.
However, I must point out an error that you made (one made by almost everyone who reads about the case). You stated:
[quote] . . . While I have not kept track of the Berg v. Obama case for many reasons, it truly is miraculous that Justice Souter required Obama to respond to Berg’s writ of certiorari. Even if, as some have said, Souter ’s action is not significant and procedural only, how Obama responds will reveal much about his view of the Constitution, and will determine if the full Supreme Court decides to hear the case. . . . [/quote]
The only action Justice Souter has taken regarding this case is to deny the aplication to stay the election. He has not required Obama to respond in any way whatsoever.
The Dec. 1 date is simply the standard time for response as set by the rules of the Supreme Court, not the result of anything done by Justice Souter.
Obama is NOT required to respond and, if he fails to respond, the Court will simply make their decision on whether to grant certiorari and hear the case without his input.
Again, other than that common mistake, the article is really great and very thorough.
KUDOS
Texasdarlin
A poster on another blog wants to punish the media by hitting them in the pocket. I have said this for months. I am soooooo tired of turning my cheek. Every time I turn on the TV, radio, newspaper (on Internet), magazines (when I am trying to shop is “that one’s face and voice. Sometimes I feel like I am going to lose my breakfast or dinner. Enough is enough!
Someone with the know how should start a mass mailer out to every house hold in the U.S. and keep doing it throughout the next four years telling people the truth about “that one” Everyone I talk to voted for “that one” and knows nothing about him. They tell me they have not heard it on TV or newspapers. I have to then explain the “racist” card that “that one started playing and how the media feel in line.
Pelosi, Reid, Burtha, Kennedy, Dodd, Manual, on and on were on tv constantly griping about president Bush. It was their strategy! It’s called “brain washing.” We need to do this in reverse! Punish the media to the degree we can and send our fliers constantly through the next four years educating people who “the one” really is. We need to educate and turn the young people away from “that one”
I would gladly help support someone who has the expertise and time to do this and I know several million others will join in. WE CAN NOT wait four years to be ready to take back our country. Believe me “that one is already campaigning now! Sure getting Hillary out of the way and using John McCain to throw up to the republicans and say, “see he is for us”
Maybe Mr. Burg or Allen Keyes will devote their time is doing this. People would not have a problem using their credit cards on the net if they knew for sure who they were.
An excerpt with alarming news IMO:
______________________
“Deeper research and investigation into this matter finds that the staging for the defense of the eligibility question appears to have been addressed by a contingent of lawmakers earlier this year in the form of Congressional Resolution 511, a resolution co-sponsored by Obama himself.
Under the guise of putting to rest any objection to Senator John McCain’s eligibility to become our nation’s President because he was born outside of the U.S., the media fell all over themselves by as they praised Obama’s sense of fair play as illustrated by such headlines and articles as: Obama Backs Law That Aids McCain, (Washington Post, March 1, 2008) and Clinton, Obama Agree: McCain’s a “Natural Born Citizen” (Wall Street Journal, April 11, 2008)
Closer scrutiny of this resolution, however, finds that the resolution actually was expanded far beyond what was necessary to merely apply to Senator McCain: it was expanded to include naturalized citizens, which ironically was the “cause of death” for this resolution.
Indeed, there is a much larger (dare I say) conspiracy afoot, one that threatens the security of the United States as much as al Qaeda and all of our foreign enemies combined. It is the enemy from within. ”
http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/usnews
If someone (outside of Patriotic Americans) tells me again that there is not a conspiracy in this country to make it a Marxist regime, I will scream so loud from our “tree house” that Max (November 18, 2008 at 12:18) will go deaf.
Another reason not to use or advertise on google:
___________________
Eric Schmidt of Google cleaning up the internet for Obama
The Conservative Voice says:
USA Today reported last year that 98% of contributions made in 2004 by Google employees to political parties went to Democrats, including a $25,000 donation by Google CEO Eric Schmidt.
How does Google treat leftist sites? Not with impartiality, that’s for sure. MoveOn has been the recipient of more than $1 million from Google. To add to this, Al Gore, who looks to be making a stealth campaign for the presidency in 2008, is a senior advisor for Google. Democratic political analyst Susan Estrich has stated that Gore was rewarded with a nice chunk of Google shares for his “advice.”
I noticed Drudge had the Alan Keyes lawsuit on there today. Maybe it will get out more now. We’ll see.
http://www.nbcaugusta.com/news/elections/presheadlines/34587804.html
SACRAMENTO, Calif.- A former opponent of Barack Obama’s has come back to haunt him over questions regarding Obama’s citizenship.
According to a press release from the American Independent Party, former presidential candidate Alan Keyes and other members of the party have filed suit in California Superior Court in Sacramento to stop the state from giving its electoral votes to President-elect Barack Obama until documentary evidence is provided to prove Obama is indeed a natural born citizen of the United States.
Some conservatives have questioned Obama’s citizenship in recent months. Obama says he was born in Hawaii in 1961.
Keyes also ran against Obama as a Republican for the U.S. Senate seat in Illinois in 2004. Obama won that election to serve his first and only term in the U.S. Senate.
copperpeony, Thanks for reminding me of that dastardly Obama item, which I read about some time ago. Please reassure me that the resolution did indeed fail to pass!
Able to claim dual citizenship is no bar to being President. Chester Arthur’s father was Irish, thus allowing Arthur to claim (then) British citizenship.
Per the US Code: (See here) Obama could have been born in Kenya and still be a natural-born US citizen. The relevant quote is:
“(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States. ”
Of course, he was born in Hawaii as per his birth certificate, so the issue is doubly moot.
As I write it is 7:45 A.M Hawaii Time (9:45 Pacific). In about 2 hours & 45 minutes the case filed by Andy Martin in Hawaii for the release of the Obama birth certificate is to take place (10:30 A.M. Hawaii Time).
Copper– I reported that in the story– the fake “checks and balances” in the Senate Resolution. See the link above to the resolution and accompanying information. The Supreme Court can invalidate that in a moment, especially if Obama uses this in his defense against any of the lawsuits. Marbury v Madison would be the reason here, they can chastise the Senate for attempting to do this.
Philadelphia Roof: thanks for your comments. Justice Souter however did order the defendents to respond to the writ (check the docket and case info). As you know, a “non-reponse” is a response. It would be more risky, imho, for Obama not to respond as he is “blowing off” the issue without having proved himself eligible. Somehow I think not responding will almost assuredly invite full Supreme Court review. Remember Justice Roberts will want to know if the man he is swearing in as POTUS is eligible. If he is not, and Roberts swears him in, Roberts could be impeached and would have to resign.
No one mentions Donald Rumsfield anymore. When he resigned, it is like after all the damage he did in Iraq was nil and he rode off into the sunset. Dick Cheney is some sort of cousin supposedly to Obama. I continue to question where I go and ask. How many people high up in the Bush administrative knows and are behind this Obama thing. GB, maybe or maybe not. Dick Cheney has been calling the shots or most think so. He was miffed because Rumsfield got the shaft. Rumsfield always reminded me of something evil this way comes. He never seemed to have allegiance to our country or that is just MHO. Where is Homeland Security? Is it not their job to protect us from such as this? CIA? President Bush? Is he waiting for another 9/11 to say, “Oh shoot, I was gonna save you guys from this.” And Mr. Patrick Fitzgerald standing around whistling with his hands in his pockets plodding right along to his next indictment which will not be soon enough if it grabs Mr. Obama in it’s collective net. It just seems to me when there is a threat to our National Security and the people of these United States where is President Bush in all of this and Homeland Security and the rest of our protectors. Sitting with their eyes, ears, and mouths covered and fingers pointing at one another. Good read Dr. Kate.
Obama voters terribly uninformed about the facts about Obama but they remember the negative attacks on McCain/Palin. Check out article on Zogby polling conducted after the election.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.cfm?ID=1641
We all knew this but it confirms once again that 52% of America are mind-numbed robots!
Talking on blogs will not get the job done. To their credit the Maxists have a tremendous network working for them and it didn’t just happen over night. The conservative voice must be out there now, not later. Write to your congressmen demanding to know why we haven’t been given the information we have a right to know. I am not a lawyer but I do know there is something called the Freedom of Information Act. If the congressmen are swamped with requests for information, would they take notice? Demonstrations would help too but ordinary citizens who pay taxes aren’t the priviliged class in 2008, are they? Punish the media. Constantly write or e-mail them confirming that we do not support their leftist views. Contact sponsers of NBC, ABC, CBS, CCN, MSNBC and tell them we are not putting up with this mess any longer. One person cannot do it, but millions can!” A squeaky wheel gets the oil.” John Adams said,”Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself.” I don’t want to be a part of that crime.
This full-page ad appeared today in the Washington Times National Weekly (Monday November 17th edition) It will hit subscribers’ mailboxes on Tuesday.
Electors are sworn to uphold it with their vote on December 15th in the Electoral College. But they must first know for sure that the candidates meet the Constitutional requirements for the office of President beginning with being a natural born citizen.
That’s what Philip J. Berg has asked the United States Supreme Court to verify. The Supreme Court has asked for a response from Senator Barack Obama along with the Democratic National Committee and Federal Elections Commission. And they have until December 1st to respond. Other cases have been filed asking for the same thing. Not extreme. Not fringe. Just Constitutional. Obama says he’s qualified. But, Berg, multiple legal suits and a growing number of American citizens are saying: “Prove it.” A basic, vital and Constitutional request. Why won’t Obama answer such a simple and essential request?
Exhibit A: The Grandmother’s tape
Barack Obama’s own grandmother said he was born in Kenya. While politicians are known for it, grandmothers seldom lie. It’s recorded on tape: “I was in the delivery room in [Mombosa,] Kenya, when he was born Aug. 4, 1961.” – Sarah Obama, Obama’s paternal grandmother
Exhibit B: No Original Birth Certificate
Experts have called the Certification of Live Birth posted online a forgery. Berg reported “It’s clearly been altered,” which invalidates it, according to the document itself. Add to this the Hawaiian law at the time which allowed people to register for this non-hospital short form certifi cate (without a doctor’s signature) up to one year from the date of the child’s birth.
Exhibit C: Indonesian citizenship
Only Indonesian citizens could attend Indonesian schools at the time Barack Obama attended the Indonesian school where he was registered as Barry Soetoro. His citizenship was listed as Indonesian, his religion as Islam, and his father as Lolo Soetoro, M.A. There was also no dual citizenship at the time. If he was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, he would have forfeited any U.S. citizenship he may have had, just as when a child is adopted in America, he or she becomes an American.
Exhibit D:
U.S. Law In addition,according to U.S. law pertaining to births abroad, from “Dec. 24,1952, to Nov. 13, 1986,” in order to register the child’s birth as a U.S. natural-born citizen at the time of Obama’s birth, he or she must be:
1. Born to two U.S. citizen parents; OR
2. If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least 10 years, at least five of which must be after the age of 14. Since Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen and Obama’s mother was only 18 at the time of his birth, she failed to meet the legal requirements of U.S. residency for at least five years after the age of 14. Either the Constitution matters or it doesn’t. If we are willing to ignore the constitutional requirements for the highest office in our land, what else are we willing to forgo? That part about free speech? Freedom of the press? Freedom of religion?
1. Sign the form below and send it in or sign the petition on the website
http://www.ObamaCrimes.com
2. Call your Congressional Representative at: 202-224-3121. Ask them to verify that the Constitutional requirements have been met and request them to conduct Congressional hearings immediately.
3. Pray for all of the hidden things to come to light and call on the media to
report this Constitutional crisis.
4. Donate to help defend our Constitution.
Chris: a less than thorough reading of the law, in your case, causes you to quote things out of context and to not grasp their full import. If it were indeed as simple as you said, why has Obama refused to release his documents? Why did he put a forged document on his website ( a crime in itself)? Why has he hired 3 law firms to defend his right not to release his papers?
If this issue was “settled”, why are there 17 lawsuits in 17 different states right now????
PS. Chester Arthur was a natural born citizen, born in Vermont.
All we are asking is for Obama to prove he was born in Hawaii and not somewhere else. He can’t run from his past forever!
Dr. Kate,
I am going to have to disagree with you. There are a total of four docket entries for the Supreme Court case:
————————————
Oct 30 2008 Petition for a writ of certiorari before judgment filed. (Response due December 1, 2008)
Oct 31 2008 Application (08A391) for an injunction pending disposition of the petition for a writ of certiorari, submitted to Justice Souter.
Nov 3 2008 Supplemental brief of applicant Philip J. Berg filed.
Nov 3 2008 Application (08A391) denied by Justice Souter.
———————————–
A careful read of those entries will clearly show that the only order issued by Justice Souter is the one denying the application for stay. (I copied those entries from the Supreme Court docket less than five minutes ago.)
Just a thought….does anyone have any connections with a foreign news outlet? A “credible” foreign News outlet could be our ticket to get Obama’s deceit out in the open. I would think they would jump all over such a huge bust like this one?
Then….our corrupt Government would have to take action if Obama’s fake birth certificate went GLOBAL!
Hmmm…
Here’s a good article for new people here.
It’s an older article, but it covers a lot of information.
http://207.114.86.27/poparticle.php?D=2008-07-05&ID=243413
Philadelphia. Thanks for the information. What is the meaning of “response due December 1″, when all of the parties were served with the appeal and the writ?
I am confident that you agree that, a ‘non-response’ is a response. Souter will get to hear Berg AFTER Obama’s response. If Obama does not respond, it opens the door wide open for the Supremes accepting the writ.
I believe Obama will respond as discussed above. It is in his interest to respond in some way, and not in his interest to not respond.
Again, thanks for reading of this article and careful scrutiny. I appreciate the learning.
Oh, my dear friends – on this eve of great hope, and many lawsuits “in the works” – I bring great despair and a sense of woe. I have been following all this for months, helping goad things along, and contribute any way I can.
But last night I woke up in a cold sweat (literally) with a deep assurance (i.e. the unflappable belief of a new religious convert) that this will not end well. Obama will either stall indefinitely or will actually produce a sufficiently “authentic” set of documents so as to put this all to bed. My new belief is based on a simple thought: How could it end any other way?
Today, I’m not talking about civil unrest or hordes of disappointed minions. I am not talking about the potential refusal of the courts to hear the cases. I am not talking about any legislative action to deflect from the core issue. I am talking simple MECHANICS.
Even if SCOTUS jumped on this hard and demanded a FULL and COMPLETE investigation, how could that possibly happen. I can’t imagine a procedure or process that would guarantee the truth. I hope some wise readers here or legal experts can explain this to me.
If what we think is true, this is the biggest, most profound, most far reaching event to ever hit any court anywhere anytime – in the history of the universe. It is totally unprecedented, in all meanings of that word. Obama has unlimited resources and motivation. Many of his resources are shady and have been known to do ANYTHING to promote a cause. If this had been addressed earlier, maybe it could have been dealt with. As it sits right now, there is too much money, too much energy, and too many expectations all invested in this. It can’t fail. It can’t be allowed to fail. It cannot be stopped. Under any circumstances. Period.
There are unlimited people and unlimited money to throw at this problem.
Perhaps this is what the MSM and even the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh know. The answer simply cannot come up other than one way. The concept of truth no longer has any meaning in this context. There is literally and mechanically no way to ever get the ground truth. So in a deep philosophical way, there is no truth. There is ONLY the narrative.
Please, please. Somebody tell me I’m wrong. Walk me through the mechanics. Paint me a scenario!
Dr. Kate,
It’s my pleasure to help out when I can.
The docket is (how to explain it) simply a catalogue of the actions taken and filings made in the case in chronological order.
The meaning of “response due December 1″, when all of the parties were served with the appeal and the writ is simply that by the rules of the Supreme Court, there is an automatic 30 day period allowed for responses to a filing such as Berg’s petition. (Automatic response times are a standard in all civil cases, although the length of time can vary with the individual court involved. I believe the response time in Berg’s Eastern District of PA case was only 20 days.)
If you wish to see the full docket for the Supreme Court case, go to:
http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm
Unlike the District Court case where you need a PACER subscription, the Supreme Court’s site gives the info for free.
CUSC.ORG is encouraging everyone to write to the Supreme Court judges to ask them to hear and investigate Obama’s eligibility to be POTUS. It has a link that gives information and suggestions as to how to draft the letter and where to send it. Since there is so little time left, it would be helpful for any one concerned to also write a letter.
LEO C. DONOFRIO v. NINA MITCHELL WELLS, SECRETARY OF STATE OF THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY – US Supreme Court Docket # 08A407 – continues to be subjected to misconduct by the US Supreme Court Clerk’s office, particularly by Mr. Danny Bickell, the Stay Clerk.
No. 08-570 Philip J. Berg, Petitioner v. Barack Obama, et al
October 31, 2008
United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit (08-4340)
Dear Honorable Justices of the United States Supreme Court,
You are facing one of the most unique and historical challenges to protect and uphold the Constitution of the United States. Not since the Civil War of 1861 has there been an issue of such vital importance to the future safety of United States of America.
“America is facing potentially the gravest constitutional crisis in her history. Barack Obama must either stand up in a public forum and prove, with conclusive documentary evidence, that he is “a natural born Citizen” of the United States who has not renounced his American citizenship…”
Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr., Ph.D., J.D.
Though Berg is asking you to rule on “standing”, it is vital that the court rule in favor of Mr. Berg on “standing” so the true heart of the matter be settled once and for all. There is but one issue and only one issue to determine. Is or is not Barack Hussein Mohamed Sotoero Obama eligible to be president under the Constitution as it is written?
Right now the whole world is focusing upon you, The Supreme Court of the United States, who are the guardians of the our Beloved Constitution and the protectors of American rules of law that separate us from chaos and tyranny. The world is wondering if you will have the courage to do what is right. It fears you will crumble under the pressures of public opinion, hollow “racist” accusations, fear of race riots threats, invisible intimidators and deal makers, or accusations of failure to respect the will of the people since Obama was elected by the people. (Everyone knows only 25% of the people voted for Obama. He was elected by a minority.)
The American public has been witnessing distortion of justice in the courts for years and suspects it will soon witness one more travesty of justice. The public’s silent fear is that Obama is not eligible to president but will be become president because The supreme court will fail to hold him accountable through a technicality like “standing”. Imagine a usurper who becomes the president of the United States is permitted to remain so because no one in America has “standing” to make the man accountable in the courts of law. It this becomes so, then what good is Article II in the Constitution?
It is believed the Supreme court will conspire with those who have vested interests in Obama to manipulate or convolute the articles of the Constitution in such a way it will legitimize a usurper to the Presidency. The whole world knows beyond a shadow of a doubt Obama is not a “natural born citizen.” If Obama slips through the net of these lawsuits and takes the oath of Presidency, the whole world will know the Constitution of the United States and its holy guardians have failed the American people. Our Constitutional Guardians will have rendered our precious constitution impotent and opened the gates to the most pernicious form of tyranny– that which disguises itself as a benefactor to its victims. The Presidency of the United States is merely a commodity. The hour of your choice is crisis of our history.
This is not about Obama. This is about the hope and future of America. This case asks far more profound questions than whether or not Obama is a citizen. This is the crisis of Constitutional history. Though issues are different, the significance is equal in challenge to Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation. When Lincoln was preparing America for the idea slavery would be abolished in all states, seven states seceded from the union. The civil war was to save the union. I often think about how painful that must have been for Mr. Lincoln. I am in awe at his courage and vision. The Emancipation Proclamation changed history for the better. Obama’s case is about upholding, protecting, defending and saving the integrity of the Constitution. This is the case that will change America as we have known once, for all, and forever. This time, if the Supreme court fails to act on the side of the Constitution, it will be a change for the worse.
Time is of the essence.
May you do right for America.
Sincerely,
Cc: to all interested people
Museumofinnocene.blogspot.com
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/vos
No, Mountain Sage was not closed down as no terms of service were broken that I am aware of. I’m sure WordPress will let me know, though.
Still up and running at the moment.
And I didn’t report Sammy to the Secret Service or the FBI. A couple of MS readers did, though.
Sage
TO MARIA:
Forget about Obama’s mother only being 18 when he was born. This amendemnt in the law reduces the age requirement of Obama’s mother from 19 down to 16 and is clear that it is RETROACTIVE to Obama’s birth.
Read the last couple of lines of my post: It says “at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years… ” . No longer is it 5 years. It’s only 2 and the law is retroactive.
Immigration and Nationality Technical Corrections Act of 1994 (Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)
TITLE I–NATIONALITY AND NATURALIZATION
SEC. 101. EQUAL TREATMENT OF WOMEN IN CONFERRING CITIZENSHIP TO CHILDREN BORN ABROAD.
(c) RETROACTIVE APPLICATION- (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the immigration and nationality laws of the United States shall be applied (to persons born before, on, or after the date of the enactment of this Act) as though the amendment made by subsection (a), and subsection (b), had been in effect as of the date of their birth, except that the retroactive application of the amendment and that subsection shall not affect the validity of citizenship of anyone who has obtained citizenship under section 1993 of the Revised Statutes (as in effect before the enactment of the Act of May 24, 1934 (48 Stat. 797)).
(LINK)
The INTCA of 1994 made the current United States Immigration Law effetive retroactive back to the date of Obama’s birth. As such no matter where he was born (Hawaii or Kenya) location would not have mattered as Stanley Ann Dunham (Mother) would only have to have been 16 to be able to transfer citizenship Jus sanguinis (citizenship by blood). Since she was 18 at his birth, she would have qualified under current US Code.
UNITED STATE CODE
TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years…
If it wasn’t for Obama using the courts, he wouldn’t be where he is today yet when it gets turned onto him, he squawks.
He has played dirty his whole public life. Its only right it comes back and bites him in the butt
Carlyle, I live in hope that there is just enough of a wisp of the rule of law left over from the old US, that all the machinations of this corrupt machine behind Obama will fail–just in time.
If they do not, we may find out what happens “when an irresistible force … meets an old immovable object.” (Specifically that the saying is nonsense, and as the song says somethin’s gotta give.)
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/11/18/la-times-only-just-notices-obama-has-thin-resume
LA Times Only Just Notices Obama Has Thin Resume?
By Warner Todd Huston (Bio | Archive)
November 18, 2008 – 04:43 ET
Interestingly, Dan Morain of the L.A. Times has just discovered that Barack Obama has a pretty thin resume prior to being elevated to the presidency. Between 1993 and ‘96, Obama, the much-ballyhooed “Constitutional scholar,” had only an unusually low 3,723 billable hours of legal work accrued over a four-year stint with his law firm employer Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Gallard. Further, he seems to have worked on but few cases and made little impact commensurate with his reputation. The question I have, of course, is why is the L.A. Times only NOW interested that Obama was “involved in relatively few cases before entering politics”? Where was this investigating before the election?
The Morain piece begins by recounting how Obama has so often made a big deal out of his days as a “civil-rights attorney” claiming it a key ingredient of his early, formative community development years. Yet, Morain finds that there isn’t much record proving that Obama did a whole heck-of-a-lot back in those days. (bold mine)
Senior attorneys at the small firm where he worked say he was a strong writer and researcher, but was involved in relatively few cases before entering politics.
So, Obama, for all his claims of being involved in the lives of “churches and community groups” as a lawyer with the firm is… what? Blowing smoke? If the paper trail reveals he didn’t work on many cases or have very many billable hours, how is it that he found this experience to be a monumental involvement in the community that shaped his career?
Morain doesn’t directly ask these questions in his piece, wisely preferring to let the facts talk to the reader. But, a careful read of his L.A.Times piece cannot help but elicit the pertinent question: what the heck was Obama doing during those four years, anyway? After all, it sure doesn’t look like he was doing much legal work!
Here’s how Morain sums up Obama’s paper trail:
30: The approximate number of legal cases Obama was involved in:
4: The number of years Obama was a full-time lawyer
70%: The amount of time Obama spent on voting rights, civil rights and employment, generally as a junior associate. (The rest of his time was spent on matters related to real-estate transactions, filing incorporation papers and defending clients against minor lawsuits.)
3,723: The number of billable hours Obama accrued while working at Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Gallard.
According to Morain, some of Obama’s “big” cases were the case of a shortchanged babysitter, the case of a cold building tenant, and a lawsuit against a corporation that owned low-income housing on behalf of a guy that slipped and fell down. Additionally, Obama was involved in the enforcement of the federal Motor Voter law in Illinois — at lest that one being a higher profile case.
So, it appears Obama has less billable hours during those four years than most young lawyers are expected to accrue (which is up to 2,000 hours a year according to some estimates), worked on but few cases, and only on one notable one. On top of that, he was rarely more than a “junior associate” the whole time.
This is the man that was praised for his extensive legal career? A slighted babysitter and a guy that fell down are the amazing legal challenges he faced as a young lawyer?
Of course, the biggest question is, why are we only now seeing this report in the L.A. Times? Where was this report two months ago or more?
Need I even ask?
Suppose the case against Obama proceeds, and he is found to be ineligible. What exactly do you think will happen? Do you think that the millions of votes Obama got should be discarded? It seems to be the working theory that no one that voted for Obama knows anything negative about him. What about the millions that did know and still voted? There are assuredly as many people that voted for McCain because ‘anyone BUT Obama’ that voted for Obama because he is not McCain.
I know you feel that Obama got fraudulent votes, but what about all the legitimate ones? What is your answer for those?
Most likely, should this come to pass, Biden will be your president. Not Hillary. Not McCain. So really, you still don’t get what you want.
And how do you repair the damage that would be caused by dividing the nation this way. The nation is already divided. That is unfortunate. But if you try to rip the results asunder, you’ll be attacking the majority of the people that voted. At least now it is the minority that feels gravely injured.
D. Kate – you claim his Hawaii birth certificate is a fake based on no evidence. In fact, various news organizations and the State of Hawaii have confirmed it is official. So, the burden of proof is on you, not Obama.
Regarding Chester Arthur – some of the commentors have argued that dual citizenship disqualifies somebody from being President. My point was that Arthur could claim dual citizenship and was not disqualified, so therefore any dual citizenship argument is not valid.
The relevant issue for natural-born citizenship is not what the law was at some past point, but what the law is now. So unless Cornell’s website is misrepresenting the law, whether or not Obama’s mother was married or not is irrelevant.
My point is that you have no leg to stand on. As for why he hired multiple law firms, my guess would be that he hired firms with offices close to wherever the lawsuit was filed, instead of paying for lawyers to fly hither and yon.
To Carlyle: There is a Higher Power. There are a lot of people praying right now. Miracles are possible. Our country with its constitution, is, itself, a miracle.
You are right in seeing the gravity of this situation.
My personal feeling is the Almighty hasn’t blessed this nation as a beacon on the hill to let it now fall apart at the seams.
As unlikely as it may now seem, the Bible Code still indicates to me that Hillary Clinton will be our 44th President. How this is to happen, I have no idea. But on some level, if it does so happen, the hand of Divine Providence will be manifest.
Carlyle, wow I appreciate your response and anguish. I have had many a same nightmare, and still today do realize we are up against something so huge, so well financed, and no one is paying attention to these questions. Sometimes I feel we are being taken over as we speak.
But remember, all possibilities in the universe exist at the same time, so it is not inevitiable. One way or another, this information will be laid bare and so will Obama, for all to see. And often, the most elaborate, complicated schemes fall on a simple thing.
If Obama even suspected that people would go beyond his book “Dreams”, and not assume he was truthful in everything he wrote there, believe me the birth certificate would have been produced a long time ago. These would be details that would have been “sewn up”. In otherwords, Obama and his team didn’t think we were “smart” enough to figure this out.
When the calls for his documentation reached a crescendo back in the spring, instead of referring people to the DNC, or showing his information, he had the audacity to put up a “birth certificate” on his ‘fight the smears’ site…which was later determined to have been altered….again, did he think we were stupid and couldn’t figure it out?
One thing I have learned is to not assume the other side has thought it all the way through. There is always something, even in the best of schemes. This birthplace, BC, citizenship mystery lies in stark contrast to everything he wrote in his book (which we were supposed to swallow as the truth), and he thought no one would question it.
This is his achilles heel, and he needs to produce NOW. Remember that there is increasing momentum against his alinsky-style “overwhelm” tactics that is now equally as strong as Obama’s money machine and network…this concern is in millions of peoples’ hearts and minds. I can’t shake the feeling myself.
So, some scenarios, just from what i’ve read here and thought about. Remember all of these are ‘maybes’ but still are reasonable scenarios when we envision an America that is supposed to work and has processes:
1. Berg Case. Obama may/may not respond. Court will hear the writ, order the lower court or appeals court to hear the case. Per case docs, expedited discovery occurs.
Federal marshalls are assigned to go get the BC and the State of HI, state dept, DNC, etc are ordered to produce documentation, again, verified by federal marshalls.
Berg will also likely require, and the Courts will agree, to have FBI forensic analysis of documents as to authenticity. If Obama is actually CIA, the best docs in the world will be produced (but man, if he is CIA he is incompetent as this would have been taken care of a while ago).
Delay of electoral college vote may be ordered until documents are provided.
2. Thomas review of NC (?) case. AFter Thomas looks at this case, and in fulll awareness of the Berg suit, he may bring this to the full court’s attention. The Supremes could take up his case (no proof of docs required) and Berg’s case (proof of docs required).
3. SOS cases, especially Keyes in CA, do not depend on supreme court ruling or Berg case outcome. Thiese are procedural issues and fall within SOS perview so one possiblity is that electors are not seated until obama provides proof.
4. Electoral college vote. If the issue is still unsettled, esp CA electors, and the electoral college vote does not give anyone 270, then the new House of Reps will choose the next president. (20th Amendment) If Obama has shown his documents and qualifies, they will likely choose him. If he hasn’t, I think the choice is between the highest two EV winners, but I have heard that anyone can throw their hat in for consideration.
If EC votes anyway absent certain states electors, and gives it to McCain, expect to see mass civil disobience and probably rioting by those supporting Obama…until someone takes the bullhorn and announces what’s going on. Obama will be to blame for this, as we know. Will even mass revolt cause him to disclose? I don’t know when I think of Alinsky.
If the EC votes anyway in defiance of on-going suits, etc, and vote Obama in, I think the lawsuits go on and we continue to pressure Obama. There will be civil disobedience by those favoring Obama’s disclosure. If he is finally unmasked before January vote of congress, then they cannot confirm the EC vote, and then vote on their own as discussed above.
4. If he is shown ineligible in any of these venues. I expect mass revolt. Some have suggested that Bush invoke Pres Directive 51, “martial law”, or stay in office for a short period (less than 3 months) to assure continuity while the country settles down and the normal processes kick in. A new president will be sworn in, if there are continued threats and violence the inauguration may be postponed or large ceremonly cancelled.
Dont forget that if he is ineligible, there will be investigations, firing and resigning by all those who knew and covered it up. That is considerable disruption which again may cause bush to stay in, continue the swearing in of an eligible candidate, and ‘orderly’ removal of all who participated in the scam.
Ok, this probably should be another post, but, here are some likely but not doomsday things that may happen. I think whatever happens it is going to be difficult for all of us. The outcome will determine if we begin the second revolution to get our country back, or if we continue the erosion of our constitution by not doing anything about it.
Nothing is inevitable.
Thanks Philadephia Roof Doctor. Do you think OBama and others will respond? Any gut feelings one way or the other?
Hi Dr. Kate, long time no see
Two things:
1. The credit for the lovely Caldera Photo should go to my Spouse: “joustchr”
2. The Birth Certificate Issue has been debunked, the article appears in the Chicago Tribune dated Oct.30, 2008:
“Obama birth certificate rumor debunked
By James Janega | Tribune reporter
October 30, 2008
A persistent rumor circulated by opponents of Barack Obama in recent weeks questions the authenticity of his birth certificate from Hawaii, despite the fact that the Obama campaign debunked the rumor in June.
In the Tribune’s political blog “The Swamp” last week, reporter Mark Silva produced a copy of Obama’s birth certificate and addressed the birthplaces of both presidential candidates.”
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-birth-certificate-30-oct30,0,1742172.story
Has anyone noticed that the article at NBC Augusta is now back online and has a copy of the fake birth certificate posted? This is getting ridiculous!
http://www.nbcaugusta.com/news/elections/obama/34587804.html
The page was removed last night around 9pm and was posted again this morning around 10am. I guess the station received a lot of calls and emails about the article being removed. Now, it is back up and the birth certificate was added at 4:51 pm est.
Interesting isn’t it?
Thanks everyone for all of your hard work. I hope something comes to light soon that will rescue us from this hellish nightmare.
I don’t know how effective but here is a site:
http://www.rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244
Jilli: You’re right. I’m going to write to my Congresspersons much more often, especially when they let the “Fairness” Doctrine come up again, when they come for our 401Ks, when they try to institute the Obama Security Force (aka Obama Brownshirts), when they try to force through amnesty again (so they’ll have 12-25 million more “grateful” voters), and when they try to redistribute the wealth.
I’m also going to cancel the subscription to my local newspaper, and I will write to any TV or radio network that continues to fawn over That One and refuses to report the stories that need to be told.
We have the power to hit them in their pocketbooks and we need to do it, and let them know that’s what we’re doing. The newspapers will still not acknowledge that the reason they are going down in flames is that they produce nothing but drivel, trash, and biased propaganda that at least half of their subscribers do NOT want to read.
Carlyle: I have the same nightmare. I can’t give you any hope. I believe that what will happen is either he will stall his way through the next 4 years OR he will present some sort of documents to “prove” his eligibility.
If he comes up with any sort of paperwork at this point, I will not believe them, any more than I believe in the authenticity of that selective service registration or the “source document” for those scans and photos at FactCheck.
We can only hope that he will be on a short leash and that whoever is holding the end of the leash will prevent our worst nightmares from coming true.
The powers-that-be, if they do KNOW the truth, will be able to use the truth to control events. All we can do is hope that whoever is holding the leash is someone who cares about America instead of someone who desires her downfall.
And we can get on our Congresspersons and KEEP ON THEIR BACKS for the next 4 years. If there’s anything that matters to them, it’s their own seats.
We will have to be screaming very loudly because of the Web network that Obama controls.
Did you happen to see the story about how he e-mailed every federal employee prior to the election with a set of promises (aka lies) catered especially to each agency? Cute, huh. Looks like it worked.
It’s like that woman who believes that he’ll pay her mortgage and buy her gas for her. There are plenty of people who will sell out their own country so long as there’s something in it for themselves. All he had to do was promise them the moon. And it worked.
Everybody says not to worry because he won’t have the money to do everything that he’s promised. But they’re not considering his promise to cut programs that HE thinks aren’t important (read defense).
In addition, he will not care if he borrows so much that he bankrupts the country. In fact, that may be one of his goals. I know that it IS the goal of our enemies and people like Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dorhn. By any means necessary, remember.
upstart,
You really should stay off the bong when you’re posting.
btw, isn’t it a kick that The One is investigating Bill Clinton’s donations from “foreign sources” and his income from same with regard to a potential cabinet position for Hillary? This is a huge problem because then foreigners might have some kind of hold over Hillary as Sec. of State. We can’t have that. I mean, it’s a conflict of interest. Right?
Hey, BO! How about the conflict of interest and potential for blackmail from foreigners who illegally contribute to the campaign of a candidate for POTUS?
You know what’s funny? If the hospital in Hawaii or Obama himself produced an authentic birth certificate, it wouldn’t matter. Everyone on here would scream and yell that it’s a fake.
According to the British daily, THE GUARDIAN, Hillary Clinton has decided to say “yes” to Obama’s offer to be Secretary of State. McCain is also trying to work with Obama, saying, they have more in common than differences, according to THE GUARDIAN.
The Keyes lawsuit in California hit the nail on the head. Others including Eldridge Cleaver have had their names removed from the ballot because of eligibility issues. Eventually Obama will be caught. The interesting point is that the Hawaiian COLB can be issued even if the named person was not born in Hawaii.
TD, from your comments to my post above, you assumed I am an Obama defender because I said that hospitals can’t talk about Obama’s birth. Nothing could be farther from the truth, and I’ve been posting here and elsewhere for several months.
I fully agree that obama is the one who needs to come forward and set the issue to rest by good-naturedly providing proof of his birth and citizenship. Sorry if I led you to believe I am on obama’s side. I’m not.
Clara,
So sorry for the error. Sometimes I reply too quickly. I will go back and edit my comment to correct this…
td
Good blog as usual.
Everyone Obama has picked so far is a Clinton person. Why? Either because he actually doesn’t know anybody in government (which is true, of course) or….Clinton (well everybody actually) has the goods on him and Hillary is to be the power behing his throne. If he doesn’t toe her line, they lower the boom. He probably is perfectly fine with that, being more a narcissist than an Alisky-ite. Anyway, Hillary was an Alinsky-ite too! And if the whole country goes to hell in a handbasket, that’s fine with Hillary too. Then she gets to replace the fool.
To Mike:
A constitutional lawyer I know who works for the Republican Party told me that the only thing that matters, in order to be President, is that you must be born in the United States. Born elsewhere, dual citizenship – nope, you’re toast!
Hillary probably demanded Secretary of State, and told him exactly what they could do to him if he refused. After she left they (passive/agressively) pretended they had to look at Bill’s questionable stuff (as in “you ain’t so pure yourself, Hillary”). She probably also insisted on Gates staying at Defence, Podesta doing the transition (appointing people she approves in lower positions too) and on and on…..And if something should happen to remove Obo from the office, Biden (if he hasn’t already been replaced by Hillary at some point) is sure to take her as his v.p. … and then bow out or let her take the second term run.
Believe me, these guys love these games. No way they want Obo to show his B.C. – no matter WHAT it shows – if it’s a fake especially. That’s a bore and absolutely no fun! They have much more clever games to play!
Predictor! Hello, I knew you’d find me and correct me on the name of your partner so thank you! Predictor, believe me, I would not be writing about this if this was resolved. You know I don’t write that much and have other work to do. Obama simply needs to produce a certified copy of his vault certificate of live birth. No one other than he can produce it, and the copies have been proven to be inauthentic. The story you cite references another inauthentic copy of his BC.
You know, I wonder if he even has seen his original copy. According to Obama, he found a BC (short form) in a shoebox among his mother’s things. As is documented, anyone could get a document like this from HI; his half sister who was born in Jakarta, has a HI BC. The interesting piece about HI’s announcement that they have a vault copy is that (a) it is unaccessed (Obama has never seen it) and (b) they didn’t reveal anything that was on it, including name of hospital, doctors, etc. If he was born in HI, just produce the thing–he should have anyway to the DNC when it supposely vetted him.
*******
To those who continue to scream conspiracy, call us racists, tell us that we will never be satisfied, or that our “goal” of HRC will not be realized, I say this:
IT’S THE CONSTITUTION, STUPID! Obama has no business being so arrogant that he thinks he doesn’t have to prove himself eligible. He is trying to tell you that the constitution was not written for him so “FU”, I don’t have to follow it. Get a clue. How can he take an oath of office to uphold the constitution when he feels “it wasn’t written for him”.
And the people who know about this and say nothing are part of it or are too afraid to stand up.
Obama has no one to blame but himself for this. All of us will move on as long as he has proven himself eligible. And he has not, and the burden of proof is on his shoulders.
****
Whenever Obama wants to divert your attention away from him, he will pull something out like an HRC nomination for SOS. Classic Alinsky–”hey, look at that bright shiny object over there!…..”
Dr. Kate,
You wrote:
“Thanks Philadephia Roof Doctor. Do you think OBama and others will respond? Any gut feelings one way or the other?”
I answered you in an email to TD because the comments were closed here. I’m not going to go into a long answer here. I’m just too tired right now, but to answer you quickly (a quick copy of the beginning of the email):
I think Obama is an egotistical sob and most likely a total fraud. I do not, however, think him to be a total fool.
So yes, he will respond with the same arguments he used in District Court. In my opinion, to not respond would lead to an almost inevitable decision against him by the Supremes. To respond with factual data and documents would show him for the fraud that he is.
To Mike,
You are quoting immigration/naturalization law. Do you see the term “natural born citizien” anywhere in it? It would be odd that a “naturalization” law could declare anyone a natural born citizen. The law stated “confers” citizenship.
The Supreme Court should decide and declare when citizen designation also means natural born citizen.
As if you weren’t terrified already…..
Watch all four of this four-part video series on “Obama – The Plan to Control America”:
Strange, bizarre background… secret past… relationship to known communists, very odd connection to KANSAS — speaking of “kansas values” (whoa!), details about Mother, Father, Step-Father, education as a Muslim in a Madrassa in Indonesia, education was bank-rolled by Kahlid Al Mansour (connected to Saudi extremists), makes you question just about everything…. WHO IS THIS PERSON? Trojan Horse — no kidding?
Watch all four videos… it is worth it. The film-maker connects the dots for you…and I guarantee…each video gets scarier and scarier….
Part I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tlYHC7wYsY
Part II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEyHONEX4lU
Part III: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk_CZVwQWCA
Part IV: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2470841028297126909&hl=en
Dr. Kate,
Some more from the email:
My opinion is that the SC will grant cert and will likely actually hear the case themselves rather than send it back to the lower court. The Justices know full well that time is short and if they send it back to the lower court, any decision (either way) will come right back to them as an appeal.
There is much more to it and I really am too tired to write a book tonight, so if you’d like to discuss this further, it will have to wait.
You can also see my never ending article in the message forum on the Country First website http://countryfirst.bravehost.com/ or drect link to article http://countryfirst.bravehost.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=74&p=170#p170 (don’t pay any attention to the title of the article – it needs to be changed since the article is not what I orginally intended it to be). I’m also not half the writer you are (only have a high school education), but you may still get something out of the article.
I am not an attorney. I am a roofing contractor who has represented himself on a civil case that went as far as the PA Supreme Court.
A recent article about the Berg case on WorldNetDaily:
1 last chance to fight for our Constitution
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81307
Hey, guys, just got off visiting one of the other conservative news sites…(lay off the torches please)…when they posted this rather…confirming video of a questionnaire given to those who voted Obama.
That seems to be another favorite move of Obama’s–attack your opponent on a score on which you yourself are guilty as hell. This is the big lie technique, which basically consists of chutzpah.
Someone who got illegal foreign funds would never dare accuse another politician of getting illegal funds, would he? So it doesn’t occur to people that he could POSSIBLY be guilty of it–look how high-minded he is about it!
This trick has worked for him in several ways during the campaign.
We shouldn’t be surprised by the actions of BO. He may be a constitutional lawyer, but he has no regard for the founding document of this nation. He seeks to change it or probably dig it up out of the vault in the Arcives building and torch it. It doesn’t matter to him what the requirements are to be POTUS, he scoffs at such piffle. He is a man that will “promise to uphold the Constitution of the US” and at the same time be in defiance of the very law. The man has no shame, no honor, or integrity. He is criminally minded. Hang on to your hat (wallet, too)–it’s going to be a rough 4 years.
(Just a thought. I wonder if he will swear on a Bible, a Koran or more likely, “Rules for Radicals” on his coronation day…hmmmm…I’m sure will never know!)
I hear a knock at my door…could it be the SS?
TJ, you have your facts very wrong with respect to Obama’s legal career.
He was not a full-time associate from 1993-1996; in fact, he was a lecturer at Chicago Law beginning in 1992. Furthermore, during that time he was writing his memoir, which was not published until mid-1995. He even took off several months to complete the book, and also spent time working on it at the University of Chicago.
His billable hours total makes sense in the context of someone pursuing professional, academic and literary goals, and his former law firm has very positive things to say about his time there. In fact, they liked his work so much that they elevated him to of counsel in 1996, which position he held until 2004.
All this actual, truthful information is easily available on places like wikipedia, by the way.
You passed along just a small bit of misinformation, but it’s a good representation of the misinformed, false stuff out there.
Obama got elected fairly. He is a United States citizen, born in Hawaii. He is not a Muslim manchurian candidate, he is not Hitler, he is not a raging Marxist, he will not declare the Constitution null and void. He’s a moderately liberal, intelligent man who will run the country, and hopefully run it well, for four or eight years. Deal with it.
Philly Roof Doctor
You are living proof that education and intelligence are two very seperate issues. Thanks for your posts and the links on the subject. Between you and DrKate, you have provided me with quite the education over the past few days.
I’m sure I’m not alone in feeling compelled to express appreciation.
Philly roof doctor. Thank you so much. We have similar “non-backgrounds” on this political stuff–doesn’t it please and surprise you that there is a depth of understanding in yourself that allows you to quickly grasp what is going on and to articulate your ideas? Same here, this little hydrologist never imagined herself writing about this one year ago…..
I think your scenario is right, Obama will respond. Lets see if he pulls out all the stops to reveal his intention: the senate resolution, his ideas on the 14th amendment and Article II….
just found this funny cartoon. Most of you may have already seen it, but it’s a good laugh…
http://sanctification.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/image.jpg
Juliette 16: terrifying indeed
Miri, so many others, thank you for reading and commenting on this article, I have learned as much from your comments as in researching this article.
Keep up the good fight, people. Our Country deserves better!
Another Alinsky-like diversion: the Hawaiian birth issue is a diversion from the potential loss of US citizenship and assumption of Indonesian citizenship. Also, acceptance of Kenyan citizenship, when it served the purpose. Are immigration and naturalization records subject to FOIA requests?
From the article at World Net Daily: Notice that Berg copied Howard Dean about his lawsuit and the potential problem with BO’s eligibility prior to the Democratic National Convention. Remember also that in his play book/diary, Dean stated years ago that Obama is a “flawed” candidate. Out of the blue, Dean is leaving the DNC. Why? Is he the designated fall guy? Where will HE land?
okay, I am numb from reading and I now wish I had taken Judah’s lead and kept a bibliography.
I was intrigued by the British subject status, so I went hunting.As stated Kenyans , at the time of Obamas birth were Subjects of the Crown. in 1963, as the empire cut loose numerous territories from the commonwealth, Kenya gained its independance. All Kenyans were then considered Kenyan citizens, and not British Subjects.
Here is where my pool gets cloudy. Obama was born as a British SUbject, NOWHERE is there a delineation of him being a Kenyan British SUbject, just British subject. After the developement of the Kenayn Consitution, processes were put in to acclimate former british subjects as Kenyans. All normal process applies. Native born, or naturalized, they had the opportunity to become Kenyan Citizens.
No method of declaration is implied except to make claim at age 18, which if NOT done your citizenship in Kenya expires.
He’s STILL a British SUbject.
Nowhere can I find anything that faintly implies that you lose your Subject status without a formal renunciation, and even then you are still considered by the Crown to be one their own. You CANNOT , except by renunuciation or conviction of treason,and again even then its not clear, lose your British Subject status.
I am not an Immigraion specialist, I am just a worn out amatuer researcher, but, its painfully obvious to me that this is the case.
But, the pragmatist in me also says it might be just what my patriotic eyes are searching for so I saw what I wanted……..just a thought, but, it can be researched further.
Our tax dollars at work: The aptly named Ms. Gross at NPR, interviewing, apologizing for, and fawning over Terrorist Bill Ayers:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/storyComments.php?storyId=97112600&pageNum=2
Read the comments and despair. Think the “Fairness” Doctrine will prevent more of this?
Slim Tyranny: how perfect for you and your name that you should write your comment! No he has not proven himself, so you get over it. Maybe you can ask your messiah directly if he qualifies–what do you think he will say? Or will he have you arrested for questioning him?
It will be a lot of FAT tyranny if Obama is allowed to serve without ever having to prove himself eligible.
The tyranny of avoiding the constitution because “it wasn’t written for him”. The tyranny of pushing yourself on people with silly slogans, lots of cash, and buying the media. I betcha dictators all over the world are studying Obama’s techniques.
The headlines in Kenya’s papers november 5th? “Native born son Obama wins US Presidential election”. Tyranny indeed–the first time ever a foreign national has attempted to take over the US.
Tyranny indeed.
Just another guy. The result would be that Obama himself disenfranchised those millions of people who voted for him because he was ineligible and knew it.
Those votes will be declared invalid because he was not a valid candidate.
Who are you going to blame? Try Obama, the DNC, the Senate, the secretaries of state, none of them did their job to vett Obama. We assumed he wouldn’t dare to run if he wasn’t eligible.
Talk about terrible: millions of votes invalid because the candidate himself was ineligible. Tyranny!
That’s the way technicalities work, as Obama knows. The Electors will have to vote for someone else.
I had this thought last night:
Could it be possible that the MSM is not reporting on the multitude of law suits because they are holding on to it for future ratings?
I still can’t figure out why so MANY journalists are ceating news, rather then reporting it.
Miri–I was outraged at NPR for this interview, as you said by the “aptly named Ms. Gross”. I sent the show and management a piece of my mind. I doubt my comment was read on air.
IMHO Ayers and his wife should be in jail. There is no statute of limitations on murders committed under their reign.
drkate, Obama will not have people arrested for questioning him; he will not institute a dictatorship; he is “avoiding the Constitution.” Using slogans and campaign dollars is not tyrannical.
His campaign released the certification of live birth, which states that he was born in Hawaii. There’s no authenticated proof that it’s a fake document (amateur sleuthing on the internet does not count; even World Net Daily acknowledges that the document is real). End of story.
Sidenote — please give a link to the Kenyan news headline(s) claiming on November 5 that Obama was born in Kenya. I saw some news describing Obama as a “son of the soil” of Kenya, but that was clearly a reference to his direct link to Kenya and Africa as the son of a Kenyan, and not a reference to Obama actually being born in Kenya.
American4America. I think that is a possibility…they will try to claim they “had no idea” and then start “breaking” news on what they’ve found out…to increase ratings, but more likely to survive the onslaught of criticism for fawning over Obama.
in re my prevous post of woe and despair.
I get the feeling that some of you did not quite get the exact meaning of my piece. We have all been wondering when (or if) one of these lawsuits would produce a “win” for those of us seeking to unfreeze Obama’s secrets.
The point I was trying to make was that even if such a win would happen in it’s fullest flower, then what next?
For example, consider Andy Martin’s case in Hawaii. What would happen if that judge orders an immediate production of all relevant documents held by the state and the two hospitals?
There now has to be a physical, hands-on, process in which those documents are found and brought forward. That process would involve multiple people at multiple locations.
Assuming that the documents are true and real (not already compromised) – describe to me the process that guarantees that these documents arrive in the correct hands. I can’t think of one.
If the documents contain information that would take down The One, “they” can not and will not let that happen. If the fraud is as big as we suspect, there will be NO LIMIT as to the actions and money used to prevent disclosure.
A particularly effective means would be to “render the documents nonexistent” at the last minute. Given our politically correct culture, affirmative action, equal opportunity, and all that, we will revert to an “innocent until proven guilty” posture.
[Moderator deleted this section]
I am as serious as a plague. I just don’t see a feasible path to a “good ending”.
I am reminded of the famous Zen story. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it make a noise? I think this clearly exemplifies the stark difference between ground truth and practical truth.
I think the MSM, DNC, RNC, McCain, etc. etc. “get it”. The only thing that matters is the practical truth. In politics that is all there is. Ground truth is a meaningless concept. Therefore all these big wigs see our concerns and efforts as a tempest in a teapot – “a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”.
I’m even more depressed today.
[Moderator deleted this section]
Also, “our politically correct culture, affirmative action, [and] equal opportunity” have NOTHING to do with “innocent until proven guilty.”
Sean: after reading this post (you did, didn’t you?) and the nearly 200 comments here,all you can say is “he proved himself already”? What is it about 17 lawsuits in 17 states that you don’t get? He has not proven himself. Your ‘certainty’ about your messiah betrays a deep worry. Open your eyes now, rather than later, it will be easier on you to accept the truth. Better yet, ask your messiah for the information. WAtch the reaction and you will instantly know him. Obama is trying to run out the clock, and this is his achilles heel.
The link to the AP story is found in the North Carolina suit before Justice Thomas. It has been reported elsewhere. Since you don’t seem to do much research yourself, go look at the link (provided in the story) and look up the Associated Press articles on this. I will not provide it “for” you.
****
Carlyle, your worries are palapable and not out of the question. Remember, with this documentation a federal marshall will have to be responsible for this….when the certified documents are released they will be in the custody of federal agents.
This does not diminish my worry either. This is the crisis Obama brought us.
“What is it about 17 lawsuits in 17 states that you don’t get?”
drkate, you are fundamentally wrong on this point. Bringing a lawsuit does NOT mean that the point has merit. You can bring a lawsuit for anything and everything. For example, one of these Obama lawsuits was brought by Andy Martin. Andy Martin is a notorious vexatious litigant, and once, according to the Washington Times, “during the bankruptcy dispute, he filed a civil-rights lawsuit claiming Jewish bankruptcy judges and lawyers were conspiring to steal his property”. He is infamous for filing false, groundless, harassing lawsuits.
Bringing a lawsuit does not mean the lawsuit has merit. Those two things are not substantively connected.
In response to “For my Sons”. My family emigrated here from Scotland in 1952. In the fall of 1957, after attending citizenship classes the previous year, and after passing a verbal test, I received my American citizenship via naturalization (by law, you have to be here 5 years unless married to an American; if you marry an American then the wait is only 3 years.) I am still a dual national in British eyes because Britain, prior to 1958, always considered you a British National, even though you became a citizen of another country, and part of the pledge you took included renunciation of your former British citizenship. Britain just didn’t recognize it. Since the Obummer was born supposedly in 1961, and wherever he was born assumed citizenship from his Kenyan father, at some point renouncing the British citizenship would have been necessary. Therefore, if Obama (big IF) renounced his British (and possibly Indonesian citizenship) at his age of majority by recording an oath of allegiance at an American Consulate or whatever entity that requires same, then he would be no longer British. But he would be a naturalized citizen and ineligible to run for the Presidency. If he did not formally restore his possible American citizenship when he reached his majority, he is still a British citizen at the least, and a dual national at best. Don’t know what rules govern the Indonesian citizenship..
I mentioned to you people that had connections with a past Royal Family in Java, and have known this Princess for decades who has a diplomatic passport and have known her for many years. In hindsight should have asked her to check several items, but at the time was just interested in one thing – the initial school record which was out up on the web. It was a fraud, as the first school that Obama attended had no administration other than a file; it was never an Islamic school at all as was under the umbrella of the Catholic Church, but they did hold a class on the side for Islamic teaching. All the records of this school were destroyed many years ago which amounted to a file folder due to a renovation and Obama was transferred to another school. There was no administration department whatsoever in the first school that he went to other than a simply file, and all this information was destroyed many many years ago.
Slim. That is some pretty thin thinking there. Of course anyone can bring a lawsuit. EAch one of these suits is raising the same question, albeit different strategies to force him to prove himself.
If he wont’ release his papers, he just won’t have the electoral votes he needs to “win”. Its up to him. Those 55 electoral votes in CA and the 20 or so from NC will surely be influential in determining the outcome of the electoral college vote. It won’t even be enough to put biden over the top.
Blindness does not help. Because of the preponderance of evidence that he IS hiding his birthplace and citizenship, remaining blind to this is completely what he wants his worshippers to do. Hence your trollish and non-sensical comments.
You are lacking something very important in your life: critical thinking. Otherwise you are just a blind man following a blind promise, and following a blind man who does not even see you.
Can everyone who’s talking about “innocent until proven guilty” please tell me why you are introducing a concept from criminal law into the discussion? We are not talking about guilt or innocence. We are talking about eligibility under the Constitution.
Allow me to posit these questions:
If you post a copy of a college diploma on a website and then apply for a government job that requires a college degree, would you expect that the agency you applied to will accept that digital image off the Web instead of requiring the college to send directly to the agency a copy of your transcript and proof of graduation, without those documents passing through your hands?
Do you think that you could arrogantly refuse to have the documents sent to the agency from your college, announce that the onus is on them to prove that you didn’t graduate, and claim that what you put on the Web “proves” that you did graduate, even when analysis seems to indicate that the image has been digitally altered?
Do you think that you could say, “innocent until proven guilty,” but still get that job? Get real.
Here’s an idea: Everybody who wants to work for the Obama administration: Post your credentials, resume, and references on the Web and then see whether they’ll accept all of it without going back to the schools, employers, and those who recommended you to verify the legitimacy of the information.
Then get back to us.
Slim Tyranny:
You are so wrong and so uninformed as to embarass yourself. But here I will only address a comment you made against my essay.
“Innocent until proven guilty” is a very specific legal principle that applies ONLY to criminal cases. It is EXACTLY through political correctness, affirmative action, and interpretations of equal opportunity being equated with equal results, that this concept has been applied to every day life.
It is EXACTLY why sterotyping and profiling have become taboo subjects, even though there are legitimate uses for these two concepts.
In this particular context I was trying to describe the following. Eligibility is a certification and credentialling process. As such it is incumbent upon the seeker to establish their own bone fides. Imagine showing up in say, France, without your passport and claiming it is THEIR responsibility to prove you DON’T have a passport? Yet that is what you are all asking us to do in regards Obama. My point specifically being that if Obama “loses” his paperwork the country and powers that be will give him a pass. Precisesly BECAUSE we have been hogwashed so much it will seem right and fair to assume he is innocent until proven guilty.
Now, back full circle – where the heck to you think we learned that particular “philosphy” from?
New Supreme Court docket entry in Berg v. Obama, et al:
“Nov 18 2008 Waiver of right of respondents Federal Election Commission, et al. to respond filed. ”
Simple explanation:
The FEC has waived their right to respond. Since the case really has nothing to do with them (they are precluded by law from anything except election finances) they have no need to respond.
Dr. Kate,
Two things I hear repeated constantly as fact but no proof has yet to be presented.
1. Maya was born in Jakarta but has a Hawaiian BC. How do we know? As far as I know, this rumor was started by TechDude (I believe) who claimed Maya’s BC was used with BO’s information replacing hers. Since TechDude disappeared without proving his point, and his methods not having been proven, I’d say this theory is pretty much debunked.
Who has ever seen Maya’s Hawaiian BC? What proof do you have that she had one?
2. BO traveled to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport. While this is highly possible, I’ve never seen one bit of proof, so repeating this as fact is just repeating Internet rumors.
Where is the evidence?
Sean/All,
There were a couple of versions of BO’s COLB. They have been posted on FackCheck, DailyKos, and FighttheSmears.
The correct form name for the COBL is OHSM 1.1 (per the Patricia Decosta COLB). There are two version’s of BO’s COLB, one which has OHSM 1.1, and another which was posted on FighttheSmears with OHBM 1.1, at least at the time of the notice about the Kenyan Citizenship.
If they weren’t photoshopped/forged, how could there be two different versions with two different form numbers?
Thus is one if fake, the other is most likely fake.
Jeez, Dr. Kate, what is this post about? I truly do not undersatnd it. I find it quite disturbing actually and if I were into conspiracy theories, I would think you had invaded progressive Democratic blogs. Who are you, “Dr. Kate”, may I ask?
Linda Peacock,
Dr. Kate can speak for herself, but as the owner of this blog I’ll be the first to tell you that I don’t appreciate your righteous and condescending tone, but hey, we’ve gotten used to that from Obama followers…
Dr. Kate is one of a handful of “citizen journalists” who has taken over the responsibility of vetting a person who has been elected to the presidency thanks to the puffiest protection ever lent by the Mass Media to a major political figure. Ever. In history.
Apparently the only response you can summon to Dr. Kate’s extensive and intelligent research is to insult her. Do you have substantive rebuttals at all, or will you — whoever YOU are — just spend the next 4 years getting “in the face” of anyone who questions Dear Leader?
You are welcome to present reasoned rebuttals to posts on this blog, but you will not be permitted to continue empty personal insults against people who have taken the time and responsibility of doing the job the Media absolutely failed to do in evaluating the qualifications of Barack Hussein Obama.
Thanks for popping by.
Miri:
Hopefully my tart reply to Slim Tyranny will put me back your good graces?
ADMIN NOTE: The moderator (TD) determined that this person is a troll intent on provoking other users by issuing empty insults using meaningless rhetoric. This person is a disingenuous intruder, has nothing of substance to contribute to the discussion, and therefore has been banned from this blog. There are certainly plenty of other venues willing to entertain dolts. This is not one of them.
Jane: I did not realize the difference in those COLB numbers. Thanks for pointing that out. Do you have any idea what the letters stand for?
Carlyle: Hey. Don’t great minds think alike? Synchronicity.
Carlyle: Were you in my bad graces?
Does this mean that Justice Thomas has decided that the Supreme Court should look at or take into consideration Leo Donofrios case ????
This is the docket at the S.Court … http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08a407.htm
To Roof Doctor,
Since “et al” is included with the FEC, does this mean Obama and DNC (that is, everyone) have also declined to respond?
Again, drkate, the mere fact that “Each one of these suits is raising the same question, albeit different strategies to force him to prove himself” does NOT mean that this question has merit. The legal system is about quality, not quantity, and none of these cases has had any substantive success so far.
He HAS released a certification of live birth, from the Hawaiian state government, and there is no preponderance of evidence that it is fake. You are alleging a massive conspiracy that does not exist.
And again, Carlyle, this statement is plain false: “Given our politically correct culture, affirmative action, equal opportunity, and all that, we will revert to an “innocent until proven guilty” posture.” Affirmative action doesn’t push us to “innocent until proven guilty”, the Constitution and due process under the law push us to that. Obama has provided a state document showing he (i) was born in the United States and (ii) is old enough to be President. He’s a U.S. citizen, so at this point, he’s met the requirements of the office.
Phila Roof Doctor. As suspected, no? Their charter doesn’t really cover anything but finances, including investigations. Of course they have not fully investigated Obama’s foreign fundraising. Thanks for the info.
Miri, thank you on the ‘innocent until proven guilty’
Jane. Read, investigate, think. That is how you find out, that is how I found out. The work done to reveal the problems with obama’s BC has NOT been disproven, either. It is being used as evidence in the Berg case, and the manipulation of Maya’s bc and the website fake is cited in nearly all of the 17 cases. If Obama didn’t think it was true, he would have disproved it. He’d have offered an authentic document, not a xerox copy of a make up certificate. What was that line, “change you can xerox”? Same on the Indonesian passport. Didn’t you read barky’s book? Don’t you know what the US law was that prevented US citizens from traveling to Pakistan? Read, investigate, think.
Linda Peakock. I am a concerned, responsible, American citizen. Like TD said, thanks for stopping by with insults which, by the way, make me laugh because you have nothing else. Next.
TD. Thank you.
TD, Did you know Peacocks loose all their feathers for part of the year ? Maybe it is that time of the month, oops, I mean year….
By the way, you may call me names and think of me as “trollish”, but I’m just trying to bring some neutrl, non-anti-Obama perspective to this site. False smears too easily gain traction in a room without disbelievers. For example, this site published the rumor that Obama was gay and had three former gay lovers (all members of his Chicago church) murdered “execution style”. It gained traction, and then I posted the truth in the comments, and TD revised the posting in response to highlight the highly suspicious nature of these allegations. Without my voice, she might not have learned the truth, and that falsehood could have kept bouncing around.
It’s important that someone points out falsehoods (for example, the false story that Obama was a full-time associate at his Chicago law firm, suspiciously billing low numbers of hours each year; as I pointed out (per Wikipedia), he was actually working AND teaching as a lecturer at University of Chicago School of Law AND writing his memoir).
Just my 2 cents, thanks.
[TD REPLY: I'm having trouble writing a new comment, so I'm going to write this here in the interest of expediency: Slim, in your last comment you said "He’s a U.S. citizen, so at this point, he’s met the requirements of the office." Are you kidding? We've spent months explaining the difference between mere citizenship and the "natural born" requirement. Neither Judah Benjamin nor I have ever implied that Obama was NOT a US citizen. It's very frustrating that we have to keep repeating this point: what we are challenging is whether he is a natural born citizen, and our argument is that someone who has had, or still has, dual citizenship may not meet the "natural born" requirement.]
Dr. Kate,
You wrote:
“Phila Roof Doctor. As suspected, no? Their charter doesn’t really cover anything but finances, including investigations. ”
Absolutely. Just makes the case a little cleaner now (less for the Justices to have to mull over).
PRD
lol renee.
The South. I think it means that Justice Thomas has decided to confer with the other justices on the court (”for conference”), before he makes a decision which in itself is interesting–he hasn’t rejected it out of hand which IS easy to do. The more the Justices become aware of these cases I believe it is less likely they are going to duck the questions. If Justice Roberts gets wind of this, which he will, he will absolutely demand verification of his eligibility.
Alinsky diversions at work: (a) BC to take away from Indonesian and other citizenship, logan act violation with Iraq; (b) HRC as SOS and the “vetting” of the Clintons (again); (c) on going financial crisis; (d) plans for the office of the p-e; expectations of crowds at teh inauguration; obama gear; media saturation; threats to people who question dear leader; etc!
Philadelphia Roof Doctor – I’m not sure that one can deduce traveling to a country on a US “no travel” list means a non-US passport was used. Why would Pakistan care that Obama (or anybody else) arrived using a US passport. Traveling to the country was against US law, not Pakistani law.
The enforcement (if any) of the travel ban would be when you returned to the US. Not only that, it’s not like the Customs people at the border would automatically lock you up if they saw a Pakistani stamp on your passport. The case would still have to go to court.
Although I will accept the claim that Pakistan was on a “no travel” list at the time, I am confused as to why, since weren’t we allies with Pakistan at the time – helping the Afghans expell the Soviets from Afghanistan?
TD, sorry for the confusion, but when I wrote “He’s a U.S. citizen, so at this point, he’s met the requirements of the office”, that was meant to flow directly from the previous sentence, stating that (1) he was born in the United States and (2) is old enough to hold office. Those three together are the requirements.
I understand that you and Judah Benjamin are forwarding the novel legal argument (”novel” as in new/innovative) that “natural-born” is not a reference to the birthplace but, instead, is a reference to continuous and singular U.S. citizenship, wherein dual citizenship would run afoul of the “natural-born” requirement.
I don’t think that argument has merit, especially given that there is no American legal precedent for making that argument. Just the wikipedia page, for example, on the topic of the “natural-born citizen” gives US Supreme Court case law that refers to “natural-born” solely within the context of “place of birth.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen
I’ve read Judah Benjamin’s analysis, and it’s not compelling. I agree that the “natural-born” requirement is shorthand for loyalty; much like any bright-line rule, it’s designed to make a sharp distinction even if some on either side of the line suffer “unfairly” (i.e. the legal age of 21 for drinking; it’s a bright-line rule designed to easily distinguish an age where one becomes mature enough to drink responsibly; this fails some 22 year olds who aren’t mature enough and some 20 year olds who are, but it’s an easy rule for enforcement).
The founders did not consider “dual citizenship” as the factor behind this bright-line rule. From Wikipedia (take with grain of salt, of course):
“It is thought the origin of the natural-born citizen clause can be traced to a letter of July 25, 1787 from John Jay (who was born in New York City) to George Washington (who was born in Virginia), presiding officer of the Constitutional Convention. John Jay wrote: “Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.” There was no debate, and this qualification for the office of the Presidency was introduced by the drafting Committee of Eleven, and then adopted without discussion by the Constitutional Convention.”
What legislative intent can be read into this language if it was adopted at the Constitutional Convention without debate? The plain meaning is the distinction between “natural-born” and “naturalized”, i.e. born here or there. The issue of Dual/multiple citizenship is not discussed.
Divided loyalties is, undoubtedly, a substantive matter. But it makes the most sense to have this substantive issue decided by the voters. You may have been born in the United States, you may have been a US citizen-only for your entire life, and you may be old enough to hold the office, but the substantive question still remains (regardless of the baseline requirements): are you of an undivided loyalty to the United States, to serve as President properly? That question is one for the entire electorate every election, and this time the electorate “signed off” on Obama’s undivided loyalties.
drkate: you’re welcome.
Slim Tyranny: You said, “He HAS released a certification of live birth, from the Hawaiian state government, and there is no preponderance of evidence that it is fake. You are alleging a massive conspiracy that does not exist.”
WE do not have to produce any “preponderance of evidence that it is fake.” The onus is on the applicant to PROVE to the employers (US) conclusively (not by a preponderance of evidence) that he IS eligible under the Constitution.
He HAS NOT RELEASED A CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH FROM THE HAWAIIAN STATE GOVERNMENT. He has posted upon a website what purports to be a digital copy of a certification of live birth. No unbiased third party has ever seen this document from which the digital image was supposedly produced.
Indeed, there is absolutely no proof that THAT document actually ever existed. After time passed, perhaps A document existed, which was photographed during a very short timeframe (minutes) by “reporters” from FactCheck. These “reporters” are in no way qualified to forensically examine such a document so that they could declare it genuine. Did they have, for example, a comparison document? Bet not.
If you believe that the image posted on the website truly is a legitimate, unaltered copy of an genuine COLB, produced by the Hawaiian state government, then answer these questions:
How is it possible for the images to have two different form/document numbers, as pointed out by Jane? Does he have two different documents, with two different numbers on them?
Which one is the “real” one “from the Hawaiian state government”?
How do you know where that document (or documents) came from?
You make claims for which YOU have no proof, yet you claim to be someone who only points out “falsehoods.”
Ox: Disinformation. There exists actual film (check You Tube) showing the registration book that proves that he was registered at that school as an Indonesian citizen and as a Muslim student. There is film of the teacher flipping through the pages before arriving at the page with his registration on it/ That particular page appears all over the Web in the form of a photograph. Information was posted elsewhere that the Indonesian government controlled ALL schools at that time, whether religious or public. Stop trying to create distractions. Do your own research, too, because we’re not going to look this all up for you just to educate you. Go back and read all pertinent stories and comments in this blog’s archives. If you want to keep up with us, get with the program.
Ox: btw, the reporter who accidentally dug up this proof of his Indonesian citizenship and his Muslim religion was someone who went over there specifically to DEBUNK the story about him attending a “madrassa.” Therefore, this reporter was not a conspiracy theorist or somebody trying to find bogus information to smear Obama with. To the contrary, this was a member of the OMSM–someone who is probably biased and in the tank for him. It’s delicious irony that the biased media may end up inadvertantly providing the Courts with the one piece of evidence that will prove him ineligible.
The South: Great find. I checked Donofrio’s website and even he doesn’t have this yet.
Slim Tyranny: Forgot to tell you that I checked out Jane’s claim. I happen to have saved the images off those websites. There are, indeed, two separate images that are identical but for that B instead of an S in the form number. Very curious.
Slim Tyranny: The voters did not have the final say on the possibility of BO’s divided loyaties because MOST OF THEM HAVEN’T A CLUE ABOUT THIS ISSE. This is because the biased media have hidden the entire issue from the public. They don’t even report on the 17 cases currently in the courts requesting proof of eligibility. Therefore, the voters have not had their say.
If the Founders were not concerned about dual citizenship or divided loyalties, then why did they insert that clause about “citizens at the time” of the adoption of the Constitution?
The voters can have a say in this issue, when and if they ever decide to amend the Constitution.
Besides, he still has not proven birth in the US and he still has not proven that he did not give up US citizenship (if he ever had it in the first place) for Indonesian citizenship. There is evidence that he did.
Slim – you’re joking, right?
“Divided loyalties is, undoubtedly, a substantive matter. But it makes the most sense to have this substantive issue decided by the voters. You may have been born in the United States, you may have been a US citizen-only for your entire life, and you may be old enough to hold the office, but the substantive question still remains (regardless of the baseline requirements): are you of an undivided loyalty to the United States, to serve as President properly? That question is one for the entire electorate every election, and this time the electorate “signed off” on Obama’s undivided loyalties.”
Voters couldn’t even name a single accomplishment of his, not the first piece of legislation, not even who he worked for and YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT THE VOTERS KNOWINGLY VOTED FOR A DUAL/TRI NATIONAL???
For a moment there I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt and read your post but after dumping that pile of absurd turd you have proven yourself to be a fool.
And I will skim over your silly posts from now on.
Miri, per the Associated Press on Nov. 1: “The Associated Press quoted [Hawaiian state health director] Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.”
Look, even World Net Daily thinks the provided certification of live birth is not a forgery, and WND is no Obama-worshipping website.
The only colorable argument to make (which I think is ultimately wrong) is TD’s assertion that (x) Obama was born in the United States but (y) he lost his “natural-born” status through dual citizenship. That’s a novel legal argument with no precedent in our courts, but at least it’s an open argument not dependent on conspiracy.
I just wanted to find out whether or not what went on the web concerning Obama’s first school report was real in Java, and those records in a simple file were destroyed decades ago as there was a renovation during the 1960’s, so assume the school record was a fraud. Again, the first school he went to was not in the least radical, as it was under a Catholic Trust, but they did provide Islam teaching as a side subject. Obama was taught both Catholic and Islam in this school, and should have gone deeper into his registered birth in Java, but I didn’t; yet could get a confirmation of such. It matters not to me, as Obama is dirty and should never become President unless he comes clean with disclosure, and he has a lot to disclose. So what is he hiding?
Dr. Kate,
“Read, investigate, think.”
You can be condescending, but you have no proof. You are repeating rumors. Seventeen court cases are repeating rumors doesn’t make it fact. Have you ever seen Maya’s HI BC?
Have your ever seen records that BO traveled to Pakistan on an Indo passport? If so, please post them. I can presume he did, but that does not make it fact.
I HAVE read. I HAVE investigated, even trying to following the instructions to find Maya’s name the the BC with Photoshop and other editing programs. Might be there, can’t find it. I DO think, which is why I’m not swallowing fact not based in solid evidence.
That BO’s BC posted online is fake or tampered with is a fact. That it’s based on his sister’s BC is not fact.
Will both points be proven? Perhaps. I hope they are. I hope they can be backed up with proof.
Please, if you can show me proof, please, I’d welcome it.
Chris Gerrib,
Youve never seen me say anything about his travel to Pakistan. In fact, I’ve never even formed an opinion on that issue.
The only thing you have seen me comment on is the legal proceedings and my belief about the Messiah’s ineligibility.
Just for clarity:
What is posted on the web is a Certifi-CATION of Live Birth, not a Certifi-CATE of Live Birth.
The first is produced from the latter.
Only the first has ALL of the information: hospital, doctor, witnessess, weight, length, foot prints, etc.
In reading the dialogue between the Obots and the Patriots on this thread, I sense a growing nervousness on the part of the Obots.
Me thinks the Patriots are hitting nerves and getting close to the truth!
There is no way to suppress truth!
A little more of the etc: father’s name, race, birthplace and occupation; mother’s name , race, birthplace and occupation.
Slim Tyranny. Lots of words still do not make YOUR argument compelling.
On matters of the constitution, its amendments and presidential eligibility, it is a matter for the judiciary to decide, and Congress as well as state agencies (eg SOS) pursuant to proper procedures, to ensure this eligibility. The “voters” should not decide that obama is ok even tho he is not eligible, and this kind of “defense” of THAT ONE’s ineligibility shows your ignorance of the role of the law and the meaning of “we are a nation of laws, not men.”
Millions of Americans made an uninformed decision to back Obama, never suspecting he was ineligible. That is betrayal of a trust and a betrayal of America in my book.
You are absolutely wasting your time here. It is astounding to me that you keep wasting your time, you make yourself look more desperate with each comment.
Go fight for your candidate’s eligibility. You can’t do that here. Show some facts. Admit it: you assumed he was eligible too. Now you are in a bind, blinded and betrayed by the man you worshipped. Do you understand that it is Obama’s responsibility here? If he had proven himself this would absolutely be a non-issue. He’s had several chances and he’s always opted for obfuscation. Nixon and Bush come to mind when I think about Obama.
“Voters couldn’t even name a single accomplishment of his, not the first piece of legislation, not even who he worked for and YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT THE VOTERS KNOWINGLY VOTED FOR A DUAL/TRI NATIONAL???”
No sure why you’re yelling this, but you’ve set up a pretty big strawman here. As for voters, plenty of informed voters evaluated Obama and decided that he was a loyal American and a valid candidate (including, for example, voters like Hillary Clinton).
Miri, the voters HAVE had their say. The media did plenty of reporting on Obama, his life experiences abroad, his unique family history, etc. etc. The information involving conspiracies of birthplaces and birth certificates is accessible on the internet, and Jerome Corsi made plenty of mainstream media appearances to discuss his anti-Obama book.
The founders were, of course, concerned with divided loyalties; thus, the “natural-born Citizen” (versus naturalized citizen) requirement. Obama meets that requirement, and so if any further testing of “loyalty” is to be done, the electorate takes on that role. The electorate decided that Obama was loyal to America.
And really, he IS loyal to America. I mean, you can hate his policies and you can think that he doesn’t have the qualifications, but I don’t think you’d actually argue that Obama would be disloyal to America.
And yes, Miri, he has proven he was born in the United States. The certification of live birth proves that, and even TD believes it to be the case (as she points out, her argues ties to another aspect of his citizenship status).
Jane,
You bring up a technical point unrelated to my post and lay the burden of proof on me. Nice trick.
Don’t forget that it is actually Obama’s burden to prove this information wrong. He can do that easily if he has nothing to hide.
**It is a fact that no one who has claimed to have “seen” Obama’s birth certificate is telling the truth, unless they say Obama showed it to him. No one but Obama or a family member can get a copy of a birth certificate. The web images which have proven to be problematic alterations are simply not genuine. Obama may have forgotten that it is quite easy to discern web based fakes, something he could have easily disproven, or paid someone to do, but he hasn’t. He doesn’t feel he has to. I am not one to “take his word for it”. Show me, Obama.
**How did Maya’s BC end up “underneath” Obama’s? It would be simple to confirm Maya’s HI BC by asking State of Hawaii officials to just confirm they have one for her on file. However, for HI to admit that brings into question whether the state gave Maya a fraudulent (US)BC as she was born in Indonesia. The blackout on information about obama and siblings has been very complete. When you read, research, and think about this, there is no certainty about Obama that can be cleared up in any other way BUT showing his documentation completely. And, the information on his half-sister, BC forgeries placed on line, etc.
**If the US has a travel ban on a country, you cannot go there, and you are stopped either at your departure point or at your arrival point. Look up the state department rules. How did he enter Pakistan? Even temporary tourist visas may not be allowed when the US had a travel ban. He probably has two passports–US and Indonesian, and uses them at will. I have no opinion on his having a Kenyan passport. There is no doubt he travelled to Indonesia and Pakistan in 1981 at age 20–he wrote about it in his book. Which passport did he travel on? Where are the records to DENY this? Easily provable, once again, by Obama himself.
I would appreciate you actually discussing the article I wrote, or perhaps re-reading some of the attached materials. Looking at these materials and articles, as well as other posts on this blog, makes your question(s) moot.
Obama can clear this up in a heartbeat. Why doesn’t he? Why don’t you ask him, Jane? Why does this have to get to the US Supreme Court? Do you know?
Do you want a President who you don’t know, and who doesn’t respond to PUBLIC requests for information? Whem you have to sue him to get an answer? W. and Nixon still come to mind when I think about this most secretive man Barack Hussein Soetoro Obama.
I JUST GOT THIS IN FROM ED, POSSIBLE GOOD NEWS ON THE LEO CASE AGAINST OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE – TUNE IN 8PM (CST) TONIGHT FOR CHAT ROOM FOR MORE INFO:
Hi Folks:
I have some great news. As many of you that has been listen to our radio show the last few days are familiar with the law suit that is in front of the Supreme Court which Leo has brought. Leo called me today and told me that all 9 of the Justice will go into a conference on December 5th and decide what to do with this case. Leo tell me that this was a history making event. It has not happened in many decades. This is what they will decide: 1). to grant his motion, 2). to dismiss his motion or 3). hold a hearing on the motion. Leo feels that they will hold a hearing on the motion which will be to decide the case. Folk this is important because of 1 reason, there is 5 Republican Judges and 4 Democrat Judge on the court. Leo feels that they will find in his favor.
Leo tell me it was because of all the faxes and phone calls to Justice Thomas is why they are hearing this case. One of our member, PUMA_IN_MI was able to obtain Justice Thomas fax number and 1000’s of you send out faxes to him.
Leo will be on Honest American News with Bob Vernon tonight at 8 pm to give the update. You need to be listening . Please join us in the Chat Room. http://www.plainsradio.com/chat.html
We need everyone we can get into that chat room so that Leo will know that we are behind him.
Please come to the chat room and join us tonight at 8:00 pm central time, CLICK HERE for the chat room http://www.plainsradio.com/chat.html
Folks, do you realize what this means? Those Justice are about to overturn the election. One other thing, Leo had concern for his life and now thanks to one of our members, the FBI is watching him like a hawk. This thing is much bigger than me, and I am so proud of each and everyone of you who stood up with me and continued the fight. God Bless all of you.
Sorry Caren was not here to do this email, so please forgive all the mistake I have made. ED
http://www.plainsradio.com/chat.html
Two things:
(1) Why are liberal trolls lurking here? What frightens them so much that they have to lurk on a site like this?
Lefty trolls should be out partying, not lurking at moderate/conservative sites. But their behaviour just shows me that they are afraid of what will happen very soon when buyers remorse sets in. These lefty trolls are desperate to try to sway people who don’t swallow their groupthink and they are hoping to prevent the TRAINWRECK that is surely coming.
The trolls know that BO is a phony and pulled to the center and pretended to favor implementing some moderate policies. They also fear public reaction when moderate Americans, who thought they were voting for a moderate, wake up and realize they have been hoodwinked and ripped off. It ain’t gonna be pretty.
(2) I think that the trolls are also terrified of the lawsuits that are springing up. Most may not be worth much and hinge on proof of birth, but BO may be able to show a valid Birth Certificate and if so, will shut them down fast. I doubt it, but it is possible.
But the Donofrio v. Wells lawsuit does not rely on proof of birth. That is not a relevant issue…and it matters not where BO was born. BO may very well be a US citizen born in the states, but because of his parentage and laws ineffect at the time of his birth, he has dual citizenship and is ineligible to be POTUS. He would be a citizen but not be a natural born citizen and it is not up to the voters to decide this matter. That is a constitutional issue and must be determined by the Supreme Court.
The trolls realize that this is skating on thin ice and they are terrified. So is the MSM. Notice that they are not covering any of these lawsuits? Scared big time of what will happen to this county, either way.
Total anarchy could ensue…and any legislation signed into law by an illegitimate president? Military refusing to be obey an illegitimate CIC? No, these things have to be legally challenged and the outcome must be determined by SCOTUS.
Too all Obamanoids who have posted to this thread:
You’re not helping and you’re just replowing old ground. And you continue to wallow in the fallacy of “innocent until proven guilty” in regards this certification process. If you really want to help, here is what I suggest you do:
Get on an Obamanoid site (or better yet, write to The One himself) with the following message:
“Dear sir. I have been participating on several wetsites that question your citizenship and natural-born status. Even though you have posted copies of relevant information, they complain because they are not “admissable or auditable”. They can be such jerks. Why else would you have posted them? But unfortunately there are millions of them and they won’t shut up. Could you PLEASE just authorize release of your relevant original records from the HI DOH and the hospitals? I’m sure this would clear everything up and once and for all show these turkeys what’s what. PLEASE! I can’t take it any more. Thank you so much for your prompt attention to this critical matter so we can all get on with the serious problems confronting our nation.”
I, for one, would be most happy to see this put to bed. Come back and talk to us when you have done your bit to help the country.
I guess the news on the Donofrio case is sort of good? It least it is progressing. But I thought the filing was for an EMERGENCY stay? Doesn’t that really insist on a response right away? December 5 (or after) is a very long time. Seems bizarre.
Ox; You say you know people with connections to high-ranking people in Indonesia.
Obama’s SECOND school in Indonesia: I read that a student could NOT
attend this second school in the 1960s unless he was an Indonesian citizen.
Is that true?
Breaking News – well not sure but a case called Donofrio vs Obama will be discussed by the Supreme Court Justices of USA on December 5, 2008.
I know some (most?) or you think API are crooks. But I nevertheless check in over there from time to time. Their “Michelle” and “Imman” stories are a small part of what they do. They have lots of stories about Kenya – including goings on with Odinga.
But I see that they have been shut down yet again for TOS violations. I am getting really concerned about this. They don’t seem to be doing anything to get them TOSsed. And it’s all very mysterious. There is never a reason, just a generic TOS violation.
Censorship is easy to ignore in the early phases. It happens to “someone else” and it’s maybe over something not so important. Then before you know it, it has grown to be too prevalent to stop.
On the otherhand, we can go nuts over every little innocent slight. My recommendation is some careful watchfulness on this.
Think about this imaginary scene:
1. Missouri: A young man is born in Missouri, Aug. 4, 1961, the same date of someone famous we all have come to know and love.
2. Kansas: The young man moves to Kansas a few
weeks after giving birth.
3. Kansas: His mother walks into a Kansas government office
and says this to the clerk: My son was born in Kansas but I
would like a Kansas birth certificate for him.
4. Does a such story seem unbelievable and impossible to you?
5. Can you imagine the look on the clerk’s face when she heard such a statement: A boy born in Missouri wants a Kansas birth certificate?
6. However, in 1961 and later a person could actually be born in another state or another country and get a Hawaii birth certificate, as I understand it!
7. Why was that possible?
8. As I understand it, it had to do with Hawaii’s statehood in 1959:
9. There were many immigrants from Asia who had no birth documents.
10. So, to make it easier for these immigrants to become citizens in the new state of Hawaii, laws were passed that said that a person born somewhere else other than Hawaii could obtain a Hawaii birth certificate.
11. My point is this: Just because a person has a so-called Hawaii birth certificate, it does not necessarily mean that he was born in Hawaii. I believe this situation is unique to Hawaii out of the 50 states, or, as Obama was quoted as saying, 57 states.
12. Long form: That is why I say the long form certificate with the names of the doctor and the birth hospital is needed to prove Obama’s presidential eligibility.
Slim Tyrrany,
You wrote:
“The certification of live birth proves that, and even TD believes it to be the case (as she points out, her argues ties to another aspect of his citizenship status).”
I’m getting tired of you twisting my words and views.
About Obama being born in the US, I assume that he was but I don’t necessarily believe that beyond a reasonable doubt.
Regardless, I think the COLB was forged, although it may reflect some or all of the information on his original birth certificate.
It is still painful for me to type, so I don’t like having to constantly correct the record when you distort this blog’s work. So please stop doing that.
Miri
As far as Dean leaving the DNC and it being out of the blue.
Not at all, it is usually the way it works. They do one term of 4yrs pretty much from what I have observed on both sides.
The RNC is changeing as well. This is the way I’ve observed it occurring in the past ..
It is amazing to me that all the Obamamaniacs fail to understand that this all goes away, is mute, never to be uttered again when Barack produces that little sheet of paper. Mind boggling that the simplicity of that act would lay to rest questions about the sanctity of their hero. Yet their response is ‘racism’. Sorry but that rings hollow. What rings true is that they know deep inside that Barack would have handed over that piece of paper by now if there was nothing to hide. They surely know deep inside that he would not spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal costs to defend against something that could be mitigated with the release of a piece of paper, at no cost. Even the simple minded would understand that for the simple sake of history nothing should blemish the constitutionality of this election. Even the most hardened radical of the Ayers ilk would ultimately agree that truth is a cornerstone of the republic. And would it not be racism in reverse to uphold an election won by deceit as the marker emblematic of the scarlet A with which to emblazon afro american candidates in the future? One only hopes the Justice Souter realizes the sanctity of his duty to the constitution and the nation and rises above petty politics to ask for and seek the truth.
The truth shall set you free.
Juliet16 on November 19, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Two things:
(1) Why are liberal trolls lurking here? What frightens them so much that they have to lurk on a site like this?
_________________________
They lurk, they copy and then report everything to their “leader” under the guise of debating about Obuma’s good qualitites.
Isn’t this the best way to find out how far these sites are progressing about the truth? Much easier than searching for it.
Meanwhile, didn’t they keep birth records at the hospital in Mombassa, Kenya in 1961?? I thought I’d read someplace that records of BO’s birth there exist.
Rather than trying to find what Hawaii has, it might be more productive to focus on what Kenya has (including the videotape online of BO’s grandmother saying she was there in KEnya when he was born).
Four Supreme Court justices will have to vote in favor of Donofrio’s case on December 5 before they will hear oral arguments from the plaintiff and the defendant, so Donofrio is still not out of the woods, even though the fact that Clarence Thomas referred it to the entire body to decide on whether to include the case in their list to judge on is encouraging.
robert c, agreed, well said
copper, agreed.
BAJ…Berg’s court materials identify the Kenyan hospital (Coast Hospital), and of course the existence of tapes of Granny Obama, which many have seen and/or heard already. I think this will all come out soon.
Carlyle on November 19, 2008 at 1:45 pm
To Carlylr and all of us here who feel overwhelmed by the “but” and “what if” of all this, rememverf tar rhe Vve teaches us,
“Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.” Translation:
1. One day at a time.
2. Tomorrow will take care of itself.
3. Don’t count your chickens before they hatch.
correcton to Mary , 10:33
To Carlyle and all of us here who feel overwhelmed by the “but” and “what if” of all this, remember what the Bible teaches us:
“Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.”
1. One day at a time, one prolem at a time, one solution at a
time.
2. Tomorrow will take care of itself.
3. Don’t count your chickens before they hatch.
So maybe someone could post a photo of Coast Hospital in Kenya, with the caption “Birthplace of Barack Obama, Mombasa, Kenya” ??
To Tony Stark’s point: “Four Supreme Court Justices will have to vote in favor of Donofrio’s case” for it to proceed.
I predict Justices Thomas, Roberts, Alito and Scalia for sure will vote for it to proceed and possibly Justice Kennedy. I also believe on that day they will stay the Electoral College vote on December 15th until this is resolved.
It’s still a long shot, but if by some miracle the SCOTUS decides to hear either Berg’s or Donofrio’s case where both sides present their oral arguments in front of all justices, watch for Obama, the DNC and their lackeys in the MSM to start screaming and yelling about how the SCOTUS is interfering again in the elections like in Bush v Gore.
Obama’s Hawaii BIRTH hospital and his NON-BIRTH hospital:
Let me tell you something clever I heard about that they did, or should I say something ugly they did:
(Remember, some people say Obama was born in one Hawaii hospital, while others say he was born in another Hawaii hospital.)
They BOTH put guards in front of their hospitals supposedly to protect themselves against snooping reporters and others who want to ask questions about Obama’s birth hospital.
(Obama was supposedly born on Aug. 4, 1961.)
1. My point is this: Why would the Obama NON-BIRTH hospital need guards, if Obama was NOT born there?
To me, such an action would be a waste of time and money.
2. This is why, in my opinion, BOTH hospitals put guards at the entrance:
If the Hawaii non-birth hospital did NOT have guards but the real birth hospital DID have guards, then it wouldn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out which Hawaii hospital was the birthplace of Obama.
3. So I say this is what happened: In order to keep the public off-balance and to protect the Obama BIRTH hospital from reporters and others, the TWO hospitals mentioned by Obama and his halfsister, Soetoro, got together and secretly hatched this plan where BOTH hospitals would post guards.
4. Really, the non-birth Hawaii hospital has no dog in this fight. Obama was not born there, so they should keep out of this bitter Obama presidential eligibility mess.
5. If the NON-BIRTH hospital has no dog in this fight, then why does it still put guards at its entrance in order to protect Obama birth records that don’t exist?
6. Again, the only explanation I can think of as to why the NON-BIRTH Hawaii hospital would put guards at its entrance: It did it to keep the public confused as to which of two hospitals was Obama’s birth hospital.
7. Clever people those Obama non-birth hospital administrators.
I know Ayers and others are terrorists,but what did the leaders in Dem party think when they stood up and got in line behind the “One?” Were all of them duped? Or are they all so left that they don’t care if the country falls? Is it the radical left’s plan to allow this fraud to cause riots in the streets if and when he is proven to be unfit for POTUS? As for Obummers they lurking on other sites,too. They are there and they are crude. TD, thank you for taking down some of the Obama trolls’ mess. Oh yes, the Torah Code has an interesting prediction–44th president is not Obama. Of course, the site was taken down by threats from the left, so I can’t direct you guys to it.
They may try to include the Bush v.s Gore case, BUT!…This case definitely has “merit”. The fact that Obama was born under British jurisdiction is a landmark, if not a nail in the coffin for Obama and the DNC. The framers specifically state only a Natural born citizen or, a citizen at the time this Constitution was adopted. They for damn sure didn’t want at the bare minimum someone under “British jurisdiction” to be able to assume the office of the POTUS especially after just have fighting the Revolutionary war to free themselves of British Jurisdiction.They excluded themselves by including the Grandfather clause, because they at least trusted themselves since they had just fought the war! But, did not want future electors to be able to assume the office of POTUS who were subject to other jurisdictions! Leo Donofrio has a very “strong” case, and that’s why Justice Thomas has put it before the other Justices for a full review. I firmly believe this case will be heard and tried. Obama knows he was NOT a natural born citizen ( remember he studied Constitutional Law) The Supreme Court “WILL” hear this case, and i have no doubt that this election will be over turned. Like it or not, it’s the law folks!!!!!!!!
Slim Tyranny
TJ, you have your facts very wrong with respect to Obama’s legal career.
He was not a full-time associate from 1993-1996; in fact, he was a lecturer at Chicago Law beginning in 1992. Furthermore, during that time he was writing his memoir, which was not published until mid-1995. He even took off several months to complete the book, and also spent time working on it at the University of Chicago.
His billable hours total makes sense in the context of someone pursuing professional, academic and literary goals, and his former law firm has very positive things to say about his time there. In fact, they liked his work so much that they elevated him to of counsel in 1996, which position he held until 2004.
All this actual, truthful information is easily available on places like wikipedia, by the way.
You passed along just a small bit of misinformation, but it’s a good representation of the misinformed, false stuff out there.
Obama got elected fairly. He is a United States citizen, born in Hawaii. He is not a Muslim manchurian candidate, he is not Hitler, he is not a raging Marxist, he will not declare the Constitution null and void. He’s a moderately liberal, intelligent man who will run the country, and hopefully run it well, for four or eight years. Deal with it.
********************************
LOL….the Cool-Aid…..put it down, wipe your lips off and back away from O’s half truths and lies! You have definitely been had by “That One”.
OK, Slim Tyranny, here’s a “one stop pop of factual info” on Obama. ENJOY!
http://www.colony14.net/id41.html
Slim Tyranny,
Seriously, you are (were) a high school debater aren’t (weren’t) you? Using common debate buzz words such as “anaysis” and “bright line” and “strawman” and citing Wikipedia as a ‘reliable’ source for information — you’re playing your hand. As a former debate coach, let me tell you where your ‘analysis’ is flawed and you would lose my vote as a judge in a round.
1. Your assertion that the Certification of Live Birth is a valid proof of BO’s citizenship is flawed. When his sister, born in Indonesia, is able to get an identical document and when Hawaii law states any child born to Hawaiian parents that was born out of the state and/or country can get one, it becomes a flawed instrument for proof of the location of birth. Therefore, it might suffice for getting a driver’s license or for some other agencies requiring proof of age, but it does not suffice for proof of birth location because the law clearly states it’s possible to get a Certification of Live Birth if you’re not born in Hawaii.
2. Dismissing the Constitutional requirements based on the populous vote is laughable and purely rhetoric. We are a country of laws, and the Constitution is the Holy Grail of our laws. To dismiss it because “Americans wish it” is contradictory to your own “bright line” argumentation in another assertion. The Constitution is the bright line, silly. When a debater uses one form of logic for one aspect of his case and then tries to float something that contradicts his own logic in another area, he will always lose credibility with me. Can’t have it both ways.
3. Your Value Judgment and Burden of proof. In any case, you know who the burden of proof lies with. The affirmative has the burden of proof, and the neg can argue status quo all day long and win if its shown to have fewer disads than the aff. So, in this case, who is the affirmative? The one advocating change, am I correct? And you are valuing the notion that changing the present system from adhering to the letter of the law and supporting a ’spirit of the law’ approach. And since Obama is the one advocating a change to the status quo (i.e. the need to present a legitimate birth certificate to unquestionably prove his place of birth) then he has the burden to prove why he shouldn’t have to do this. You say he shouldn’t have to release anything more from his past but this questionable document, as long as Americans think he’s good for the country. Laws don’t matter, and since that’s a change from the status quo, why don’t you let me know why that’s an advantage for the aff? Why will this country be better off without the rule of law? If you can’t tell me why Obama’s secrecy regarding his birth location is an advantage for this country, then you lose on this point as well.
4. Everything else you propose is obfuscation and detraction from the actual issue.
I vote Neg and support the rule of Law.
Ohhhh…. I must share this. I always thought the “racist” responses came from BO’s handlers and script writers….I WAS WRONG! That One has been using that excuse since at least his high school days.
http://www.colony14.net/id41.html
By his own admission, Obama’s high school grades are not exemplary; rather than do homework, he reads the works of black authors like Langston Hughes, Ralph Ellison, James Baldwin, Richard Wright, W.E.B. DuBois, and Malcolm X. [20,190]
High school friend Keith Kakugawa relates later that Obama “…made everything out like it was all racial.” After Obama complains about being picked on at the basketball court because of his race, Kakugawa’s father tells Obama, “No, Barry, it’s not because you’re black, it’s because you missed two shots in a row.
Obama attends the elite, expensive, private Punahou High School (1971-1979). The school is racially diverse and whites are in the minority. The final day of school is traditionally known as “Kill Haole Day” (“Kill Whitey Day”). <~~~~Hmmm…INTERESTING. I must say…that seems a bit racist and radical to me.
http://obambi.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/10days/
On December 5, 2008, only ten days before the electoral college votes, the nine Justices of the U.S. Supreme Court will meet in private to discuss Obama’s birth certificate
Jump to Comments
By Devvy Kidd
Leo Donofrio’s case submitted to the U.S. Supreme Court regarding Obama’s citizenship has reached a new level: the case has been “distributed for conference.”
On December 5, 2008, only ten days before the electoral college votes, the nine Justices of the U.S. Supreme Court will meet in private to discuss this case identified as:
Leo C. Donofrio, v. Nina Mitchell Wells, Secretary of State of the State of New Jersey
United States Supreme Court Docket No. 08A407
This docketing today by the court for this next step should send ripples of fear through the Obama camp. Obama has been proceeding at lightening speed to put together a cabinet and take possession of the White House with the hope that he won’t have to answer the question of whether or not he was “at birth” a “natural born citizen.”
Every major news network, print and cable news like FOX, CNN and MSNBC, have ignored all the court cases challenging Obama’s eligibility as sore losers or conspiracy theories. It might be in their best interest at this point to report this critically important meeting to take place on December 5, 2008, or lose what little credibility they have left.
—-
…If four of the nine Justices vote to hear the case in full review, oral argument may be ordered. The conference is scheduled for December 5, 2008, ten days before the meeting of the Electoral College…
Update: Attorney Leo Donofrio has recently updated his blog:
THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT HAS SCHEDULED FOR FULL CONFERENCE, LEO DONOFRIO’S NJ CITIZEN SUIT CHALLENGING THE ELIGIBILITY OF MULTIPLE 2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CANDIDATES, INCLUDING BARACK OBAMA.
Today, the United States Supreme Court scheduled the case – Leo C. Donofrio v. Nina Mitchell Wells, Secretary of State of the State of New Jersey – US Supreme Court Docket No. 08A407 – for a conference of the nine Justices.
If four of the nine Justices vote to hear the case in full review, oral argument may be ordered. The conference is scheduled for December 5, 2008, ten days before the meeting of the Electoral College.
The case originally sought, pre-election, to have the names of Barack Obama, John McCain, and Roger Calero removed from New Jersey ballots, and for a stay of the “national election” pending Supreme Court review of whether those candidates were eligible under the Constitution as natural born Citizens, as is required by Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States.
Leo Donofrio brought his case from a lower New Jersey court to the NJ Supreme Court – was denied – and then he filed an emergency stay application in the United States Supreme Court on Nov. 3, 2008, before the Honorable Associate Justice David Souter. Justice Souter denied the emergency stay application on Nov. 6.
Leo Donofrio renewed the application, as per Supreme Court Rule 22.4, to the Honorable Associate Justice Clarence Thomas by way of Express mail on Nov. 14. The application arrived at the Supreme Court on Nov. 17 and was submitted directly to Justice Thomas.
On Nov. 19, the case was docketed for full conference of all nine Justices and scheduled for December 5, 2008. It is not known at this time the exact details of how the case came to be “DISTRIBUTED for Conference”.
Background on “The Justices Conference” is discussed as follows by the Supreme Court Historical Society:
“No outsider enters the room during conference. The junior Associate Justice acts as “doorkeeper,” sending for reference material, for instance, and receiving it at the door…
Five minutes before conference time, 9:30 or 10 a.m., the Justices are summoned. They exchange ritual handshakes and settle down at the long table. The Chief sits at the east end; the other Justices sit at places they have chosen in order of their seniority…
The Chief Justice opens the discussion, summarizing each case. The senior Associate Justice speaks next, and comment passes down the line. To be accepted for review, a case needs only four votes, fewer than the majority required for a decision on the case itself. Counsel for the litigants are directed to submit their printed briefs so that each Justice has a set several weeks before argument.
The Latest obama citizenship lawsuit moves up a level at supreme court
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08a407.htm
I just also wanted to say THANK – YOU to TD for your exceptional work. I have followed this for some time now, just to maintain my sanity…when I saw through 0bama and wondered if I was the ONLY person who did, this site gave me great assurances.
I was at the Phoenix airport right after the election and all they play is CNN pro-0bama shit, I inquired and the terminals have a one-channel contract!!! The same at Wells Fargo Bank!! At Phoenix Int’l there’s a moving walkway and an announcement says “the walkway is ending, please step off” which repeats constantly.. when you’re on it you hear that part clearly…then if you walk oh, say 100feet away all you hear is “mumble mumble OBAMA mumble mumble OBAMA mumble mumble OBAMA” which repeats and repeats and repeats–I swear to God! I was the only one who noticed it consciously…I asked a few patrons standing in line for bottled water at the Cinnabon and, they blinked a few times and listened, and THEN they heard it too! “Oh yeah! It keeps saying ‘Obama’!”
I feel like the world has gone mad and I’m the only one who notices what a gruesome fraud 0bama is, or the brainwashing hypnosis he uses…I’m a biochemist and more the analytical type. I have been left feeling very scared about the American electorate after this 0bama episode, who I think act on emotion and not facts. What I think had to have been a joke, so many lap up like koolaid.
Again, thanks. You are a hero, an American patriot, and an amazin person.
erkyl on November 20, 2008 at 3:41 am
Thank you very much for putting this pseudo intellectual in his place. I am a retired English instructor (close to 40 years), and I have also caught out a number ot these poseurs at TD’s site. Its a pleasure to be your colleague.
Obama passed the “test” alright. He’d be sitting with Ron Paul and Ralph Nader if he didn’t.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20992.htm
I think the fix is on.
I think Palin was the sacrificial lamb.
I think McCain is a scurrilous human being for doing what he did to her.
I think the whole point of this charade was to discredit and destroy conservatism.
I too wanted to thank you TD and all the people (on this blog who have made comments) who have helped educate all of us on this. I would like to reemphasize a point I made several days ago here on this blog. We (if you have not already) need to write letters to all of the Justices of the Supreme Court. I have written Leo Donofrio and asked if he has the Fax numbers for the other Justices at the Court. If anyone knows those numbers and would be willing to list them here would be most appreciated. Finally there is yet another group that is contacting electoral college voters in each state about this issue.
TJ Great Website! If you want more insight read the Newsweek article “When Barry Became Barack.” Some of the stuff quoted at the website you mentioned is listed in this article.
Slim Tyranny: You stated that “The Associated Press quoted [Hawaiian state health director] Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.”
Huh! Notice what they do NOT say–exactly WHAT the birth certificate SAYS. They specifically and tellingly do NOT say that this “original birth certifcate” proves that he was born in Hawaii OR anywhere in the United States of America.
In fact, as we have shown, it is entirely possible for the state of Hawaii’s health department to “hold” his “original birth certificate” even if the birth certificate indicates foreign birth. Indeed, it may be a FOREIGN “original birth certificate.”
Where in ANY of their statements do they claim that the “original birth certificate” PROVES that he is a natural born citizen? NOWHERE. So, why is it that you and the OMSM ASSUME that because Hawaii “holds” this birth certificate, it means that he is qualified under the Constitution to be POTUS?
Then you state, “The only colorable argument to make (which I think is ultimately wrong) is TD’s assertion that (x) Obama was born in the United States but (y) he lost his “natural-born” status through dual citizenship. That’s a novel legal argument with no precedent in our courts, but at least it’s an open argument not dependent on conspiracy.”
TD’s assertion about his dual citizenship AT BIRTH is an entirely valid argument, not simply “colorable,” whether or not there is “precedent.”
Another entirely valid premise, and no doubt the one that most troubles you, given that there exists EVIDENCE to support it, is that whatever citizenship(s) he had at birth, he may have given it [them] up when he assumed Indonesian citizenship. It’s interesting that you gloss over this issue.
Who cares what World Net Daily “thinks?” Are you perhaps referring to ONE person who MAY have written an opinion without any supporting evidence?
You also stated: “The founders were, of course, concerned with divided loyalties; thus, the ‘natural-born Citizen’ (versus naturalized citizen) requirement. Obama meets that requirement, and so if any further testing of ‘loyalty’ is to be done, the electorate takes on that role. The electorate decided that Obama was loyal to America.”
Provide us with uncontrovertible PROOF that, as you assert, “Obama meets that requirement,” meaning that he is a natural born citizen and NOT a “naturalized citizen.” Again, you are glossing over the issue that he may have surrendered US citizenship when he moved to Indonesia. Any US citizenship could ONLY be reconstituted through “naturalization.”
I saw NOWHERE on any ballot, or even in any poll, the issue of his loyalty. Yet you say that voters “decided that Obama was loyal to America.”
The media do not even report these 17 lawsuits, so how can you claim that the issue was before the people before the election and that they formed an opinion, much less voted to affirm, that he’s loyal?
And no, Slim Tyranny, he has NOT PROVEN that he was born in the US. TD’s belief is just that–a belief. None of us, not even TD, has seen PROOF one way or the other.
Ox: What school exactly are you talking about? Are you sure that it was the Catholic school that underwent “renovation” after he was there? The school registration book was in the hands of a particular teacher. It looked very legitimate. There was absolutely no reason at that point in time for anyone to have rigged up a fake book. In fact, there was more of a reason to suppress it. I suspect that the poor woman has been shunned (if not worse) by now and that possibly the book no longer exists. Watch the video on the Web. Everything about that registration book looks very genuine to me. It’s entirely possible for a teacher to possess such a book, which was not destroyed in a “renovation.” btw, why would renovation destroy school records, anyway? I thought the story went that the records were eaten by bugs. Ha!
Does it occur to you that your contacts in Java may be in the tank for Obama and may be misleading YOU? BS went to two different schools. Name the school to which you refer, and then we can more intelligently respond.
IF you are in a position to investigate his registration in “Java,” then please do so. We would be so grateful to see PROOF of his Indonesian citizenship/registration.
ILBlue: If what you say is true, then why has Dean been around for so long? Why is he only NOW leaving, especially after his shining “success” in this last election?
nobama2: I agree. TD IS a hero. I just hope that we will not one day tune in to find this blog “silenced”, too. I think what happens with API is that trolls insert comments on their site, which they don’t appropriately monitor, and then the trolls report the site to the host and get them shut down.
The OMSM is so far ignoring the Donofrio story. Even Drudge does not report it, as of the time of this comment. Why? I cannot imagine a media outlet that does NOT monitor the Supreme Court docket. Can you?
WILL there be patriots on the Court who uphold the Constitution? I can imagine a scenario where they may not, but that scenario is beyond frightening.
Here’s an interesting paragraph from the Obama timeline site:
“In 1971 or 1972, Obama is sent back to Hawaii to live with his mother’s parents; his mother remains in Indonesia. (Dunham may possibly have traveled with Obama to Hawaii, and then promptly returned to Indonesia without him, but with his half-sister, Maya Soetoro.)”
The photo of BO Jr. and Sr. at the airport was supposedly taken in 1971–the same year he was sent back to live in Hawaii. So, as I proposed yesterday, is it possible that BO Sr. is the person who transported him back to Hawaii? Maybe his mother sent him from Indonesia to Kenya (on his Indonesian passport) and then BO Sr. took him to Hawaii using a Kenyan passport. I repeat: Is it possible that he was a “foreign exchange student” at Punahou and also later at college? His legal name in Indonesia was Barry Soetoro. His apparently legal name in Hawaii became Barry (or Barack) Obama Jr. So, is this how the name change was accomplished? That is, when dad brought him back to Hawaii through Kenya, a Kenyan passport was provided with the name Barry/Barack Obama Jr. Presto chango. No need to be naturalized. No need to “correct” any amended birth certificate (if it was amended when he was adopted). Just resume using the birth name. Plausible?
Puzzling, though, that the Obama timeline site says he gave up using Barry Soetoro in 1980. So, was he registered at Punahou as Barry Obama or Barry Soetoro? Has anybody who’s been looking for college records for him considered requesting the records of Barry/Barack Soetoro?
To John Mirse:
I have a modest opinion regarding the two hospitals in Hawaii that have posted guards:
Diversive tactics to throw the dogs off the trail. I still believe he was not born in either of those hospitals and the ploy is one of many that has been used in this election.
Obama’s camp is stealthy, sneaky and corrupt with street smarts but their level of intelligence in really not up to snuff, just like the people who think he’s a messiah.
TD, Off topic, but passing on. Warren Buffett (The richest American) Berkshire Hathaway Inc. Lost most yesterday in 23 yrs. His company, now has a 37 billion bet on world equity values more then a decade from now. American Express is one of Berkshires top 10 stock holdings. Plunged 47% since Sept 30. Wells Fargo, their number 2 investment dropped 35% also. You know TD, I wonder how many years of future funds of ours have been lost really ? Also Td, it is funny but when I was searching for Helen Canfield-Davis’ family (wife of Frank Marshall Davis) I could never pinpoint exactly who her family was, but they were very old ,big money. The Brookshires- Burrus family history kept popping up. Related ? Too wierd. Isn’t AMEX begging for bailout money ? My husband said they turned themselves into a bank to stand in line for a chunk of it. And Wells Fargo ? Didn’t they jump on the list first round fast too ? Same people and companies, over and over it seems.
DrKate:
What an awesome essay. This is like the longest thread ever. You have indeed created the “essay that keeps on giving”.
TD, Forgot, Shame on me. Congrats are in order. Someone besides us noticed your talent too huh ? Like academy awards for the blog set huh ? Cool. You deserve to win all nominations, but do not get all fired up and injure yourself further. Go slowly ! But never doubt your importance or talent again !
I encourage all Patriots take the time to write all SCOTUS Justices prior to the December 5th conference. Below is a letter I sent to Chief Justice Roberts a few days ago. I have also written Justice Thomas and will send letters in the next few days to the rest.
One question; will an outcome of the conference be a merging into one hearing of Berg’s and Donofrio’s suits?
******************************************************
The Honorable Chief Justice John G. Roberts
United States Supreme Court
One First Street, N.E.
Washington, DC 20543
Re: Docket # 08A-407 Donofrio v. Wells & Docket # 08-570 Berg v Obama
Dear Chief Justice Roberts:
I write you today as a citizen having serious concerns about the constitutional eligibility of Barack Obama to be POTUS. As you may now, there are numerous court challenges in the lower courts to Senator Obama’s eligibility but there are two cases at your doorstep. An attorney from New Jersey, Leo Donofrio, has worked his way through the lower courts with a balanced effort to get to the truth of Senator Obama’s along with all of the candidate’s eligibility under the provisions of Article II, Section 1 of the US Constitution. Donofrio’s premise is that Senator Obama carries dual citizenship at birth thus disqualifying himself for POTUS. Through a strange set of circumstances under SCOTUS Rule 22, I believe Donofrio can now present this case to you for review along with copies going to the other eight Justices.
Additionally, the former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, Phillip Berg has filed a Writ of Certiorari requesting that Senator Obama produce proof of his eligibility through original birth records to be POTUS under Article II as well. His position is different from Donofrio’s in that Berg’s premise is that Senator Obama was not born a natural born citizen of the United States and thus disqualifies Senator Obama from being POTUS.
All through the election season, Senator Obama has refused to release his original long version vault copy of his birth certificate to clear up this constitutional eligibility issue. Instead he has fought this effort through court proceedings. This makes me, and many millions of people wonder what the Senator is hiding. If I am ever asked to produce my birth certificate, I am always happy to provide it. I can understand privacy issues for a private citizen but when being a natural born citizen is one of the three requirements to be POTUS, I believe it is the Senator’s duty to waive privacy and prove he is constitutionally eligible.
As well, assuming he was a citizen at birth, Donofrio’s premise of Senator Obama carrying dual citizenship at birth, thus dual loyalties is a compelling argument. These challenges to Senator Obama’s eligibility show no precedent in law or the Constitution which will require for you and your colleagues to review and define these issues to prevent the potential of a usurper taking the office of POTUS now and going forward.
I pray and hope for the sake of our country we resolve this constitutional crisis before inauguration day on January 20, 2009. Especially for your sake, since I am sure you would want certainty that the person you swear into office is truly qualified to be the President of the United States. And I pray and hope you will actively get involved in Donofrio v. Wells & Berg v. Obama to get to the truth for the American people.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
I don’t know if writing to SC justices is a good idea; not sure I can recommend that. Possibly could backfire..???
It has been an assertion here that it is impossible to travel to countries where travel is restricted. US citizens are not allowed to travel to Cuba, yet I have been there legally by having the appropriate paperwork filed and being granted a visa. There are ways to get into countries that are otherwise off limits.
This is what Barry said at the rally for his cousin in Kenya.
“Democracy can’t work without freedom of the press.” Also….. “Without Freedom of Information, it wouldn’t work.”
He is so much a two faced person.
This is what is going to hold him accountable.
Proverbs 27-19
A mirror reflects a man’s face but what he is really like is shown by the kind of friends he chooses.
Proverbs 29, 12
A wicked ruler will have wicked aides on his staff.
Proverbs 29, 16
When rulers are wicked their people are too; but good men will live to see the tyrant’s down fall.
Senator McCain tried telling us at every rally at the end saying……..”Never give up.” Do you think he knew?
TD: I understand your point of view on writing letters to SCOTUS.
….BUT, the justices are American citizens as well. Just as you have set-up a forum for respectful dialogue here, I see nothing wrong with SCOTUS knowing this dialogue exists amongst American citizens.
The keyword to any communication sent to SCOTUS is “respectful”; anything sent to them must recognize the honor they are due!
TD?
The letter that reps wrote was very well composed “by a citizen and patriot” of this country.
How can this backfire? These people (Supreme Court) are there to protect US and the Constitution, therefore I am confused by your thought process.
Maybe I’m wrong. I am not that well versed on the law and what is proper or not. All I know is we have been backed into a corner by a rabid pitbull and any form of defense is better than being submissive and getting bit.
Well, I could be wrong. I’m just not personally convinced that writing to SCOTUS justices is a good idea…
dr”tate”,
Just listened to y’all on ‘politicalpastachio’. Great conversation. I am going to re-listen, as there is alot of very good information shared.
I admire you for not correcting the host as to your name ; )
I recommend listening to the radio show from the 16th discussing the implications of the pending lawsuits and the abdication of the media.
DrKate: Here is a much delayed comment about Trojan Candidate:
One of the least discussed, yet single most effective, superiority methods of the modern US Military is War Gaming. This not only involves actual physical scenarios (readiness exercises, top gun school, etc.) but extensive desktop planning. Potential threats are examined as well as the most likely manner in which these threats can be carried out. This, in turn, drives everything from foreign policy to actual tactics of warfare, weapons acquisition, trading partners, and everything in between.
Now, we all know that Radical Islam (same as “regular” Islam? Don’t know yet, jury is still out) is patient and devious. We know that they are willing to invest in extended and complex “set up” for planned operations. We know that there are overt “cells” in many places. We know there have been covert or sleeper cells in the past, and have every reason to believe this practice continues. We don’t know how many, where, or what is their specific purpose.
We know that a fundamental tenet of such Islam is to destroy Western Civilization. Particularly Israel and the US, and probably UK as well. One of the most effective threats in such a context is infiltration of Western Governments. Particularly at the highest levels – even to the Congress and the Presidency.
So, let’s play some War Gaming. How might such a threat be planned? When would it have to start (i.e. how much lead time)? What kind of people would be needed? What would their background be? How would they be educated? What kind of people would be their closest associates and mentors? What kind of election process would be needed? How many baby steps would it take? What kind of propaganda would need to be prepared? How would the typical population be “prepared”. How much and what kind of control of the media would be needed? How much money would it take? Where would that money come from? – and so on.
Most importantly – in terms of protecting ourselves from such a threat – how would we know if this is happening? What would be the key physical and outward indicators that we should watch for? Suppose a legitimate candidate came forward but exhibited some of these critical characteristics? What would be the threshold of “evil features” that would kick in the necessary protective actions? Given the knowledge above (re Islam, sleeper cells, etc.), how much do you err on the side of “not profiling” vs. being overly cautious?
Some of this should be considered behind closed doors. But a lot of it needs to be aired out in public. This is a discussion that has not yet happened.
Congratulations on the nomination, TD!
Good news about the Donofrio case. As interesting as it is to debate all this online, I’m quite ready for the Supreme Court to take over, if it’s going to lead to a resolution of the facts and/or the law at issue.
Mike:
Regarding Obama Sr’s first marriage, I have read that it was not a civil marriage. Whether that is speculation or not, I don’t know. However, it is quite common, even today, for people in African countries to get married the traditional way, without bothering to obtain a civil marriage license. If Obama Sr’s first marriage was such a marriage, then it would not have been recognized in the United States, and thus his marriage to Stanley Ann Dunham, if it took place, would have been technically legal.
Hello Everyone,
Just a brief note to check in, and let you all know that I appreciate your comments. There is a wealth of information and intelligent analysis in this thread, and while I have limited my keyboard input, I do read everything you post, and process it. I continue to be so impressed and grateful for your contributions.
Dr. Kate deserves an award for giving us a truly unique and informative article, and I am always honored to publish her work here. She has dedicated an enormous amount of time and research to this study, and I am so impressed by her perseverance, intellect, and generosity.
Because of my injury, we’ve been able to use Dr. Kate’s outstanding post to keep this thread going for a while, and that has turned out to be a windfall, as Dr. Kate has graciously participated in a days-long dialogue with readers on this blog. Again, words cannot express my appreciation to Dr. Kate and to all of you for this important and historic discussion.
My injury is healing, but the doctor insists that I type as little as possible, so I’m doing my best to obey. I do plan to keep this blog open, and to continue writing in the future once my health and my real-life business are back on track. In the meantime, Judah is working on some things as well, I believe, and I hope that Kate will file a new article soon too.
Thank you again to everyone. I will leave this thread open for comments.
About Numbered Comments:
I forgot to mention that WordPress informed me that they are upgrading things, which is why they did away with the numbered comment format. They tell me that soon we’ll be able to thread individual comments with replies and other fancy stuff. So hopefully that will come soon. In the meantime, they cannot re-activate the numbered comments system unfortunately. But I will keep bugging them.
Thank you.
Carlyle: wow. thank you for this information, and indeed, I think the next step for that trojan candidate article would be to create a “handbook”, if you will, for identifying the signs of these kinds of individuals and actions, that when pieced together, indicate a large scale infiltration.
You exactly played the “war game” that probably describes my unease now. Especially after learning about (and seeing) the Alinsky tactics & strategy…the “slow march through the institutions” that was preferable to the WU tactics. The institutions can also include the courts, the SOS offices, the universities, and surely the media control. It’s got to be in someone’s mind that the media will report on the ridiculous ad naseum, and fail to report on 17 lawsuits, a supreme court case on the basic identity of the President elect!
So, “indicators” is a good chapter. Also, what additional laws and protections to we need to ‘modernize’ our domestic institutions to this threat other than physical security devices? The “checks and balances” , and other questions asked by Berg point to the fundamental institutional weaknesses of our current system to guard against such a strategy. There will be a need to cast a wide net.
The other clear indicator is the extent to which his supporters are lead entirely by emotion and other complex psycological issues, such as ‘white guilt’. When none can name a single accomplishment but speak of his eloquence, then critical mind has been turned off.
Thanks again.
*****
to AOI:
to add to your comment to Mike, although marriage records for Obama and dunham have not been found, divorce records have been, setting the marriage in 1961 in February. Re: Obama’s kenyan ‘marriage’ was according to traditional law of the Tribe was recognized in parallel with British law, but no certifcate would be provided. The only marriage recognized is that of the US marriage in Feb 1961.
The issue of concern is Ann Dunham’s age. She was 3 months short of meeting the requirement under the laws of the time if Obama was born in Kenya. She could not have conferred natural born US citizenship to barack. If he was born in HI, there is no problem.
Thanks for your comments
correction on the “no problem” statement above, meaning, his COLB would show him born in the US. He still has other problems of multiple citizenships.
*********
TD, thank you so much for YOUR generosity and relentless pursuit of the truth. It is no wonder you are up for so many blog awards. Your work and Judah’s work have opened the eyes of many, and I am happy to have contributed to this effort of all of us to make sure our country is secure.
This is indeed a historic dialogue we are all having here, and your blog has made this possible.
With much gratitude!
I heard on TV yesterday that George Soros poured tons of money into Secretary of State races, through multiple legal entities, in at least 5 battleground states, in order to get into office his hand-picked choices. Secretaries of State control elections and voter rolls, for starters. George Soros, the admitted former Nazi, foreign-born billionaire.
Miri, thanks for this information.
Howard Dean’s “50 state strategy” also comes to mind and the enormous funneling of money through ACORN.
Howard Dean knows that he will be held responsible for failure to vet obama, as well as Pelosi and the other members of the DNC. The net will be wide I am sure. I think Dean may be out of the country, you know, shopping or something.
I have only a few minutes to say this, but will be back later.
I am SO impressed with this blog that I don’t even bother with other blogs anymore. I feel like am I surrounded by the smell of polished wood, wonderful portraits, leather bound chairs, a roaring fire and friends.
TD’s blog deserves an award and just maybe, there might be a book published one day: “Bloggers save the Constitution”
A compiled list of ideas and contributions. A daily diary of sorts.
btw, while looking for any stories in the OMSM concerning the Donofrio case, via Google, I learned that Daily Kos has a story about the case. Of course, they’re ramping up their spin that the Supreme Court is “interfering” in elections again.
The OMSM is going to have to carry the responsibility for any repercussions that occur when the sh** hits the fan. HAD they covered the story from the beginning, truthfully and in a non-biased way, any repercussions if he’s disqualified would be at least lessened.
Instead, the OMSM is going out of their way to install him as “President” even before he’s inaugurated. By doing so, they’re increasing, perhaps deliberately, any outrage amongst the population of his supporters, if he’s disqualified.
Ginger,
Thank you for the Bible verses. Those are very telling. As for your last question, “do you think John McCain knew?”
YES! He absolutely knew, and he was telling us to fight the good fight!
Miri, I agree 100% with you. The media has covered this up , and is partly responsible for the outcome of this also. I have done away totally with the mentality of thinking the facts are on the news. I only read the news here now. New reality. Maybe this was a good eye opener for us all. We have become way too gullible. We have been way too trusting also. We need to question everything now. Unfortunately. What kills me are the people that do not even want to hear about it at all. They say that they refuse to live like that. They do not want to know. I wonder how they plan to live ? I guess it is Denialville for alot of people. I am truly amazed.
To Miri
I had to ’snort’ in agreement after reading your post:
“By doing so, they’re increasing, perhaps deliberately, any outrage amongst the population of his supporters, if he’s disqualified.”
I imagined hoards of people, misinformed people, completely aghast, sucking the air out of every room in disbelief, as the word ‘disqualified’ is uttered. Painful.
Think of all the research, analysis, surfing, reading, listening & writing we have done for months in an effort to educate ourselves and make sense of it all. To the millions of others who have blindly been lead, I don’t think there is anything anyone could do or say to prevent the outrage that would commence, and certainly not enough time for the MSM to effectively educate millions of people to the point where they would really ‘get it’, because they appear to not ‘get it’ either! What a mess!
To Peony -
Couldn’t agree with you more! I can’t say enough good things about this blog, and refer people to it daily.
Keep it up everyone – truth does have a way of coming out, eventually…
DrKate – Hey, I didn’t say any of that stuff. I didn’t mention Obama or the election or anything. I just asked some innocent questions.
TD – about “numbered comments” – and particularly “thread individual comments with replies”.
Oh, please, no. I hope they don’t make you do that or I hope you don’t choose to do that. That did that over at ObamaCrimes for short while and it was TOTAL CHAOS. That works really good for very specific topics – like how to get a particular VCR fixed, or some such.
But for a blog like this, you already have the topics set up with your lead pieces. Then the comments follow. Some on topic and some a little off. But at least they are in chronological order so we can revisit your site and continue where we left off before.
It used to be real easy to reference any previous comment like “#213 Carlyle”. But now you can just do this instead “Carlyle @ 11/20 7:31pm”.
Just my 2¢ worth.
D’y'all see this over at American Thinker?
We’re all part of the NEW media!!!
Judged by the open record, the coming administration will bring to power the most radical Leftist group of political operators in American history. Their unapologetic radicalism on the subject of abortion is only part of their story, but it is surely the single most lethal and irresponsible part. Their entire campaign was built on lies and image-making, shielded by a solid stream of daily cover-ups by the Big Media, and supported by tens of millions of brainwashed followers.
So the Left got away with it. The Democrats won, but democracy lost.
And yet, all is not lost.
American conservatives can celebrate one historic triumph: The performance of the New Media in this election. We can’t lose sight of the fact that the New Media managed to expose Obama and his lifelong network. We did the job of real journalism. Any American who wanted to know the truth was able to find it out with a few clicks on a keyboard. That is real journalism, not the phony imitation from the Old Media and its camp followers.
There is no secret any longer about the ideology of these people, or about their close alliances with Islamic radicals, destructive Leftist billionaires and Saudi influence buyers. There is no doubt about their deep and entrenched roots in the Chicago Machine. Chicago Mayor Daley is on the transition team, and Chicago hardball pol Rahm Emanuel is the White House Chief of Staff. This is the dream team of demagogues like J-Wright, Bill Ayers, Louis Farrakhan, and our sworn enemies abroad. About half the voters know it, and they will not forget it.
Carlyle,
Thanks for sharing all the information. Interesting read about “NEW MEDIA” but I’m compelled to again clarify that TD Blog is NOT a conservative blog.
We are PUMAs. Liberal or moderate Democrats (speaking for myself, a former Dem now Indepedent).
But never Conservative. When the story is written of the New Media and how it tried to vet a presidential candidate against all kinds of forces, the PUMA element must be included.
As for how WordPress structures comments, I have no control. But I encourage you to send your feedback to WordPress directly.
Thanks.
This is worst than we thought!
Diamond Tiger, in his series “Obama’s Socialism: Decades in the making” provides a great background.
Obama is an expert at Saul Alinsky’s revolution techniques. George Soros wants to end the U.S.’s reign a world superpower. Someone said George and his friends are worth $500 billion. Obama is not an “enemy” to the world’s 1.6 billion Muslims and their untold billions in oil profits. The nation’s MSM is now in the hands of half a dozen